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#302
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Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:
Good Afternoon Elizabeth At least you admit that i do thank you from time to time , Very kind of you to do so. Why wouldn't I admit it? That's a very big chip you have on your shoulder, Mirjam. You might try putting it down sometime. And I have also defended Israel against false accusations, Mirjam, don't forget that. For example on August 24, you thanked me for writing the following: And i did it because you deffended Israel and because it was so unusual for you to so. But in General you are very anti -Israeli , but you should be forgiven, since many of you probably don`t realize what exactly is going on....you have no clue. about day to day life. I don't ask to be forgiven for my opinions of Israel's policies, Mirjam, any more than I ask to be forgiven for my opinions of my own government's policies. They both have a very wide streak of immorality in them. markedly in the late nineteenth century as Jewish people fled By the way have you ever Heard about Pki`in and other places whose Jews NEVER LEFT Israel since biblical times??? Yes, Mirjam. That is why I said that the Jewish population INCREASED instead of suggesting that it started. And do you Know why and from where the bane SALEM of your city comes ? From the word Shalom because it was to be a city of peace. Why do you assume that I am ignorant? Thank you Elizabeth [ I have not seen the original post ] for this almost accurate explanation and correcting Sheena `s incitive post= with deliberate false facts. So if i thank you , Where is your insistance that i only write agressive critical letters ???? I don't know, Mirjam. Where is that insistance? Are you sure it was me? Are you sure you aren't yelling at the amorphous American mass over here that you usually yell at? in your former letter you accuse me of being silent when you deffended yourself , and when you wrote about Dianne !!!! on other times you tell me i do answer /write too much ...... so it is true .... You rarely acknowledge an accurate defense, Mirjam. As you see me as being only critical, so I see you. Even when you do thank me, you condition it with "almost correct" and then hasten to criticize me elsewhere. I *have* said kind things about you, Mirjam, and defended you against others when they were too far out of line and I know you saw them because you thanked me for them. If i saw them and thanked you , ok But in general you are rather scolding rather playing Big Judge from Heaven ,,,,,,, and i don`t like that , just like you don`t like me telling you something that i opposes something . but i am an outsider , whom many dislike not because of me , but because i do not agree to their Stereo typing me in a roll .... and that is waht causes the friction,,, i dare to talk back , you have never found start a flame and YOU know that very well , i usually answer back , when attacked or insulted. No, Mirjam, it is not that you talk back that causes friction. I do not have you stereotyped in any role, rather it is you who have me and all the other Americans here stereotyped. You think that we act as if we were better than you and you are constantly seeking to bring us down. That is what causes the friction. No one likes to be constantly picked at. You don't like it from me, but what you don't see is that you are the one who started it. All I am doing is giving you back what you have put out here. If you don't like it, you might try responding differently. You might try not yelling at us for not sending you condolences. You know i spent this morning in a ceremony with Real life Heroes . the Ceremony opened an Exhibition of artifacts in the Archives of Lohame -HaGetaot , the Museum built by the survivng members of the Ghetto Warsaw uprising , of course most are already dead, but several of the than Younger people are still amongst us, and i was today in the same room, being in their company, It was an opening of the Exhibition , a Salute to the Archive worker , and to people who brought artifacts and/or do translating of the documents, I felt so honored to be amongst those people, I was delighted my son wanted to come with me on this special day. I was honored some of them know me and about the work i do. And than i thought about those petty flame wars that go on here ,,, and i know my percpectives, and my way , and my values. These are the people who teach me where to stand and be proud and not give in , to inflamotory posts. This wonderful people who also built and educational center [ and teach all over the world ] against xhenophobia, against unkind words , because they felt the results on their flesh. Those people fought for something real, Mirjam. I have stood on the ground where they died, daily walked the streets where they lived. Your battles here are so petty in comparison that it shames me to see you speak of it that way. I am sorry for you. And i remember wel who and how you scold , No Mirjam, you get it wrong all the time. , and i am telling you , that YOU NEVER scolded mrsPP in the same measurements you scolded me !!!! Nope, I don't usually bother with Pat at all when she goes off on her toots, because when she gets like that, it's clear for all to see that she is being ridiculous. But your spite is more insidious, more subtle, and more in need of countering, to my mind. But I am not in your class , the only reason i stil answer you , is because i believe in your intelingence and try to keep a discussion going on. Why do you keep bringing my work into this? Why do you constantly intimate that I must be a bad teacher if I disagree with you? What kind of parent are you that you argue this way? a discussion as in exchanging opinions ,,,, I've tried that with you. It wasn't very successful. It doesn't take long to displease you and to be scolded for not answering or not saying the right thing. For now, I'm tired of it. Elizabeth -- *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* |
#303
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Excuse me RUBY
So now discussing inteligently , or answering letters is Aghhhhhh!!!! Thump, Thump, Thump (banging head against brick wall) Ruby And after writing the Above you write this ...don`t blame Me for self inflicted blue marks , i think there is a name for this as well An eye for an eye until all the world is blind. |
#304
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Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:
I thought Elizabeth that we could have a reasonable discussion , but obviously we can`t You're right, Mirjam. We can't. Those people fought for something real, Mirjam. I have stood on the ground where they died, daily walked the streets where they lived. Your battles here are so petty in comparison that it shames me to see you speak of it that way. I am sorry for you. Now you claim to know what my murdered family members would have felt? And this is why. You constantly read into my writings things I have not said. Nowhere in the above paragraph do I claim to know what "your murdered family members" (you never ever said you had relatives in Poland) would have felt. I told you only what I feel, what my reaction to your words is, but you insist on reading there something I have not said and castigating me for it. I will not answer you on this again. Elizabeth -- *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* |
#305
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#306
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Lynne !!!!! I was sorry you joined this discussion,
, but if you do i would have appreciated that you had first read my former letter and , not taken Elizabeth`s writing out of it`s contents , there you will find that it was me who called all those flame wars petty wars , but also my other feelings. When i read Elizabeth`s reaction i could not believe it at first, the lady denies my saying that 2 years in Boston gave me 1some idea` about hor Americans live and think, But her walking onthe blood stained streets of Warsaw , gave her an insight to What they Thought when she never met them? When i tell that Friday i sat next to some of those people , some of them are my teachers , in whose foot steps i walk ... They taught to stand upright and not and talk back , to those who speak foul of us.. I just ask you tro reread my post and than Elizabeth`s answer ,,,,,,I have not misunderstood it at all , if she really respected the memory of the people who fought the Ghettos she would have spoken differently. Because those who fouhjt back were those who didn`t listen quitely to those who told Them how they should live , and feel and breath ,,,, they took their Lot in their hands , they fought to be one and equal to all Humans. For self respect , For Justice, Against incittement that lead to dehumanizing and than to slaughter. Mirjam, I am almost positive that you misunderstood what Elizabeth said. I understood her to mean that arguing here at RCTN is nothing compared to the things people fought and died for during the War. And isn't that true? The worst things we can do here (thank goodness) are to say mean things or become irritated with each other. Your relatives -- and many others -- were literally tortured and killed. And Do you know what paved the way to this torture and MURDER [they were not killed they were Murdered , GASSED to death ] , Because Nobody stopped those who spread hateful words ,,,,, That is how it started Lynne , just with words !!!!! mirjam |
#307
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You tried but did not succeed ,,,,, and ps your words Shame you not
what you see in my words mirjam Lynne M. wrote: (Mirjam Bruck-Cohen) wrote in message ... Those people fought for something real, Mirjam. I have stood on the ground where they died, daily walked the streets where they lived. Your battles here are so petty in comparison that it shames me to see you speak of it that way. I am sorry for you. Now you claim to know what my murdered family members would have felt? Have you spoken lately to any of those fighters ? or have you held in your hand any of my Grandparents` and aunts` last letters ? ? While you walked the blood soaked streets of the slaughter houses , maybe breathed dust that was a part of their ashes? The last year as i open letters and documents from 1942-45 , i learn and meet my Grandparents , aunts and other Family members, whom i never met alive. From their letters and some pictures , and collect a detail here and detail there , i know i do a very respectful , i will never know all the details, but they sure tell me more Mirjam, I am almost positive that you misunderstood what Elizabeth said. I understood her to mean that arguing here at RCTN is nothing compared to the things people fought and died for during the War. And isn't that true? The worst things we can do here (thank goodness) are to say mean things or become irritated with each other. Your relatives -- and many others -- were literally tortured and killed. Thank you, Lynne. That was exactly the point I was trying to make. Elizabeth -- *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* |
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