Building a kiln controller

That difference is exactly what I'm asking about... can you please
explain? I'm not familiar with more complex controllers than the one
that came on my EK Miller Fusebox.

nJb wrote:
Javahut wrote:

"Kalera Stratton" wrote in message
...

This may not adequately address many people's financial situations, but
if you're going to put $350 plus labor into building one, what is the
advantage over spending the extra $150 and buying one?

My line of thought usually follows the question, "What am I good at?"
and usually when I answer the question, I find that I end up ahead if I
put the time into what I'm good at, then sell my work to earn money to
pay someone else to do what I'm not good at, in this case build a
controller. Especially since, for me, it is an endeavor I would engage
in too seldom to ever really *become* good/fast at it.


Learning how to do something new and what do you do when your controller
fails?

If you know how its built, it is much easier to repair it when it breaks.
That's not an "if" it breaks, its a "when". and some of us just can't
resist the "how do you do that" thing. It's what got me into glass in the
first place.
and $150 buys alot of fusible glass, right?


What Javahut said. AND, your comparing a $500 controller to one you
build for $350. The $350 controller has $300 in whistles and bells.
Whistles and bells that are worth something.

Jack

--
-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com

Kalera Stratton wrote:

That difference is exactly what I'm asking about... can you please
explain? I'm not familiar with more complex controllers than the one
that came on my EK Miller Fusebox.


The controller offered by Arrow Springs appears to be a fine controller.

The controller Liam would need costs $515. I doubt it would have a
switch that cuts power to the elements while the controller remains on,
but maybe so. It likely uses mechanical relays, the one he would build
would operate silently. It would apply power to the elements in short
bursts reducing expansion and contraction of elements, easier on the
elements. The prices I quoted are list, I don't pay anywhere near that.
I built my 100A controller with redundant overtemp protection for right
around $350. If my controller goes down, I'm up and running in minutes.
That makes building worth it alone.

Check this kiln out:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?H2AE2647A


I've got somewhere around $2200 into it, less than 40 hours labor, and
some research. So for that I have a large kiln, primo controller, and
the $400 welding machine that was included in the $2200.

There's nothing wrong with buying. I prefer to build, nobody seems to
offer exactly what I want, and when I build it I know what makes it
tick.

Jack

If I where to buy a kiln controller with the cal9500 functions I think the
cheapest I can get is a bartlet and its $600 and some change and still does
not store as many programs. For $350 I can get a control that holds one
program or I can build the cal9500 plus I just love building things so I can
say I did it.

"Kalera Stratton" wrote in message
...
That's a good point, if I was in the market for a large kiln or expected
that I would be. However, I was just using my particular situation with
the kiln class to illustrate the fact that sometimes, when you take your
time for labor into consideration, it's less expensive to buy something
than it is to make it.

That's what I was wondering about this particular controller; if it
costs $350 in materials, and then there's the time spent researching,
aquiring parts, and building it, is it actually a less expensive
controller? The price is not far from many commercially-available
multi-segment controllers, and what I am wondering is whether it is
significantly superior to, say, the 30-amp multi-segment controller
available at Arrow Springs? If it is, I'd love it if someone would
explain that to me, because in that case I might be interested in it
myself. If it's not, then I'm wondering if the OP had taken under
consideration that his time might be more efficiently spent making
product to sell for the difference in cash to buy the premade
controller. That's not going to be true in all cases, and for some
people, as Javahut pointed out, it's worth it for the simple pleasure of
building something yourself. I can appreciate the joy of building
things; I am an avid do-it-yourselfer around the house, but a lot of
people overlook the fact that sometimes building something yourself is
not the most economical option.

Charles Spitzer wrote:
"Kalera Stratton" wrote in message
...

I can see your point re; the curiosity, but...

From a purely financial viewpoint, I think I would have to take a good
hard look at that $150 and ask myself whether I would be shortselling my
time by building it myself vs. making salable product. In other words,
it
might COST me more (that I could have spent on glass) to save the $150
vs.
making salable product in the same time frame. There are a LOT of
variables involved, but it's something that self-employed people (or
people who supplement their main income with their art sales) often fail
to take into consideration in the "make it or buy it?" equation.

For example, a fellow not long ago was encouraging me to take a day
class
at the coast (a 3-hour drive) that would teach me to build a small kiln
in
one day. The class was only $150, and materials were included (no
controller, of course.) It was a full-day class, plus of course the
drive
there and back again, and meals... that's about a 14-hour commitment.
Plus
$150. You can buy a small fusing kiln for about $400, shipped, and,
given
14 hours, there is a strong possibility that many artisans could make
the
difference between the cost of the class (plus travel expenses) and the
price of a kiln. If I wanted to build a lot of kilns it would be
completely worth it; I only want one right now. Maybe a few more down
the
road. Not nearly enough to make the cost/benefit ratio tip in favor of
the
class.


well, except for the fact that if you can build a small one, you can
build a
big one (the concept scales). the cost to build a big one may be 2k-3k,
to
buy a big one might be 15k-20k, making your savings be a lot more.


Javahut wrote:

"Kalera Stratton" wrote in message
...


This may not adequately address many people's financial situations,
but
if you're going to put $350 plus labor into building one, what is the
advantage over spending the extra $150 and buying one?

My line of thought usually follows the question, "What am I good at?"
and usually when I answer the question, I find that I end up ahead if
I
put the time into what I'm good at, then sell my work to earn money to
pay someone else to do what I'm not good at, in this case build a
controller. Especially since, for me, it is an endeavor I would engage
in too seldom to ever really *become* good/fast at it.



Learning how to do something new and what do you do when your
controller
fails?

If you know how its built, it is much easier to repair it when it
breaks.
That's not an "if" it breaks, its a "when". and some of us just can't
resist the "how do you do that" thing. It's what got me into glass in
the
first place.
and $150 buys alot of fusible glass, right?





--
-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com




--
-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com

That's a nice set up I was thinking about building a kiln like that when I
get the space. I doubt I will ever buy a kiln again. I get what I want when
I build it my self. After having to rebuild this cress I realized there is
not much too them so why not build.

Oh and thanks again Jack you're help is greatly appreciated


"nJb" wrote in message ...
Kalera Stratton wrote:

That difference is exactly what I'm asking about... can you please
explain? I'm not familiar with more complex controllers than the one
that came on my EK Miller Fusebox.


The controller offered by Arrow Springs appears to be a fine controller.

The controller Liam would need costs $515. I doubt it would have a
switch that cuts power to the elements while the controller remains on,
but maybe so. It likely uses mechanical relays, the one he would build
would operate silently. It would apply power to the elements in short
bursts reducing expansion and contraction of elements, easier on the
elements. The prices I quoted are list, I don't pay anywhere near that.
I built my 100A controller with redundant overtemp protection for right
around $350. If my controller goes down, I'm up and running in minutes.
That makes building worth it alone.

Check this kiln out:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?H2AE2647A


I've got somewhere around $2200 into it, less than 40 hours labor, and
some research. So for that I have a large kiln, primo controller, and
the $400 welding machine that was included in the $2200.

There's nothing wrong with buying. I prefer to build, nobody seems to
offer exactly what I want, and when I build it I know what makes it
tick.

Jack

Kalera Stratton wrote:

This may not adequately address many people's financial situations, but
if you're going to put $350 plus labor into building one, what is the
advantage over spending the extra $150 and buying one?

My line of thought usually follows the question, "What am I good at?"
and usually when I answer the question, I find that I end up ahead if I
put the time into what I'm good at, then sell my work to earn money to
pay someone else to do what I'm not good at, in this case build a
controller. Especially since, for me, it is an endeavor I would engage
in too seldom to ever really *become* good/fast at it.

-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com


A look at your website tells me that you're good at making beads. I'm
good at building things, especially glass machines and controllers. I'm
working at getting good at building things out of glass. If my glass is
ever in such demand that I don't have time to build machines, I think I
could live with building glass only. Maybe someday.

Jack


http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/xmissionbobo/my_photos

liam potts wrote:

That's a nice set up I was thinking about building a kiln like that when I
get the space. I doubt I will ever buy a kiln again. I get what I want when
I build it my self. After having to rebuild this cress I realized there is
not much too them so why not build.

Oh and thanks again Jack you're help is greatly appreciated


My pleasure. Remember, the CAL9500P is only one type of controller. It's
the one I happen to use so I'm very familiar with them. The ONLY thing
that I wanted it to do that it won't is the advance one step in a
program. Others out there may do that for you. I know the operation of
mine well enough that it just takes me a few seconds to do what I wish
could be done by pushing one button.

Jack


http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/xmissionbobo/my_photos

Make sure you get the right one, cal do a 9500 and a 9500p which is the
one with the program feature.

liam potts wrote:

If I where to buy a kiln controller with the cal9500 functions I think the
cheapest I can get is a bartlet and its $600 and some change and still does
not store as many programs. For $350 I can get a control that holds one
program or I can build the cal9500 plus I just love building things so I can
say I did it.

"Kalera Stratton" wrote in message
...

That's a good point, if I was in the market for a large kiln or expected
that I would be. However, I was just using my particular situation with
the kiln class to illustrate the fact that sometimes, when you take your
time for labor into consideration, it's less expensive to buy something
than it is to make it.

That's what I was wondering about this particular controller; if it
costs $350 in materials, and then there's the time spent researching,
aquiring parts, and building it, is it actually a less expensive
controller? The price is not far from many commercially-available
multi-segment controllers, and what I am wondering is whether it is
significantly superior to, say, the 30-amp multi-segment controller
available at Arrow Springs? If it is, I'd love it if someone would
explain that to me, because in that case I might be interested in it
myself. If it's not, then I'm wondering if the OP had taken under
consideration that his time might be more efficiently spent making
product to sell for the difference in cash to buy the premade
controller. That's not going to be true in all cases, and for some
people, as Javahut pointed out, it's worth it for the simple pleasure of
building something yourself. I can appreciate the joy of building
things; I am an avid do-it-yourselfer around the house, but a lot of
people overlook the fact that sometimes building something yourself is
not the most economical option.

Charles Spitzer wrote:

"Kalera Stratton" wrote in message
...

I can see your point re; the curiosity, but...

From a purely financial viewpoint, I think I would have to take a good

hard look at that $150 and ask myself whether I would be shortselling my
time by building it myself vs. making salable product. In other words,

it

might COST me more (that I could have spent on glass) to save the $150

vs.

making salable product in the same time frame. There are a LOT of
variables involved, but it's something that self-employed people (or
people who supplement their main income with their art sales) often fail
to take into consideration in the "make it or buy it?" equation.

For example, a fellow not long ago was encouraging me to take a day

class

at the coast (a 3-hour drive) that would teach me to build a small kiln

in

one day. The class was only $150, and materials were included (no
controller, of course.) It was a full-day class, plus of course the

drive

there and back again, and meals... that's about a 14-hour commitment.

Plus

$150. You can buy a small fusing kiln for about $400, shipped, and,

given

14 hours, there is a strong possibility that many artisans could make

the

difference between the cost of the class (plus travel expenses) and the
price of a kiln. If I wanted to build a lot of kilns it would be
completely worth it; I only want one right now. Maybe a few more down

the

road. Not nearly enough to make the cost/benefit ratio tip in favor of

the

class.


well, except for the fact that if you can build a small one, you can

build a

big one (the concept scales). the cost to build a big one may be 2k-3k,

to

buy a big one might be 15k-20k, making your savings be a lot more.


Javahut wrote:

"Kalera Stratton" wrote in message
...


This may not adequately address many people's financial situations,

but

if you're going to put $350 plus labor into building one, what is the
advantage over spending the extra $150 and buying one?

My line of thought usually follows the question, "What am I good at?"
and usually when I answer the question, I find that I end up ahead if

I

put the time into what I'm good at, then sell my work to earn money to
pay someone else to do what I'm not good at, in this case build a
controller. Especially since, for me, it is an endeavor I would engage
in too seldom to ever really *become* good/fast at it.


Learning how to do something new and what do you do when your

controller

fails?

If you know how its built, it is much easier to repair it when it

breaks.

That's not an "if" it breaks, its a "when". and some of us just can't
resist the "how do you do that" thing. It's what got me into glass in
the
first place.
and $150 buys alot of fusible glass, right?




--
-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com



--
-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com

I will I am pricing them now I have found a few places with the list price
of $225 I'm hoping to find lower

"David Billington" wrote in message
...
Make sure you get the right one, cal do a 9500 and a 9500p which is the
one with the program feature.

liam potts wrote:

If I where to buy a kiln controller with the cal9500 functions I think
the
cheapest I can get is a bartlet and its $600 and some change and still
does
not store as many programs. For $350 I can get a control that holds one
program or I can build the cal9500 plus I just love building things so I
can
say I did it.

"Kalera Stratton" wrote in message
...

That's a good point, if I was in the market for a large kiln or expected
that I would be. However, I was just using my particular situation with
the kiln class to illustrate the fact that sometimes, when you take your
time for labor into consideration, it's less expensive to buy something
than it is to make it.

That's what I was wondering about this particular controller; if it
costs $350 in materials, and then there's the time spent researching,
aquiring parts, and building it, is it actually a less expensive
controller? The price is not far from many commercially-available
multi-segment controllers, and what I am wondering is whether it is
significantly superior to, say, the 30-amp multi-segment controller
available at Arrow Springs? If it is, I'd love it if someone would
explain that to me, because in that case I might be interested in it
myself. If it's not, then I'm wondering if the OP had taken under
consideration that his time might be more efficiently spent making
product to sell for the difference in cash to buy the premade
controller. That's not going to be true in all cases, and for some
people, as Javahut pointed out, it's worth it for the simple pleasure of
building something yourself. I can appreciate the joy of building
things; I am an avid do-it-yourselfer around the house, but a lot of
people overlook the fact that sometimes building something yourself is
not the most economical option.

Charles Spitzer wrote:

"Kalera Stratton" wrote in message
...

I can see your point re; the curiosity, but...

From a purely financial viewpoint, I think I would have to take a good

hard look at that $150 and ask myself whether I would be shortselling
my
time by building it myself vs. making salable product. In other words,

it

might COST me more (that I could have spent on glass) to save the $150

vs.

making salable product in the same time frame. There are a LOT of
variables involved, but it's something that self-employed people (or
people who supplement their main income with their art sales) often
fail
to take into consideration in the "make it or buy it?" equation.

For example, a fellow not long ago was encouraging me to take a day

class

at the coast (a 3-hour drive) that would teach me to build a small
kiln

in

one day. The class was only $150, and materials were included (no
controller, of course.) It was a full-day class, plus of course the

drive

there and back again, and meals... that's about a 14-hour commitment.

Plus

$150. You can buy a small fusing kiln for about $400, shipped, and,

given

14 hours, there is a strong possibility that many artisans could make

the

difference between the cost of the class (plus travel expenses) and
the
price of a kiln. If I wanted to build a lot of kilns it would be
completely worth it; I only want one right now. Maybe a few more down

the

road. Not nearly enough to make the cost/benefit ratio tip in favor of

the

class.


well, except for the fact that if you can build a small one, you can

build a

big one (the concept scales). the cost to build a big one may be 2k-3k,

to

buy a big one might be 15k-20k, making your savings be a lot more.


Javahut wrote:

"Kalera Stratton" wrote in message
...


This may not adequately address many people's financial situations,

but

if you're going to put $350 plus labor into building one, what is
the
advantage over spending the extra $150 and buying one?

My line of thought usually follows the question, "What am I good
at?"
and usually when I answer the question, I find that I end up ahead
if

I

put the time into what I'm good at, then sell my work to earn money
to
pay someone else to do what I'm not good at, in this case build a
controller. Especially since, for me, it is an endeavor I would
engage
in too seldom to ever really *become* good/fast at it.


Learning how to do something new and what do you do when your

controller

fails?

If you know how its built, it is much easier to repair it when it

breaks.

That's not an "if" it breaks, its a "when". and some of us just
can't
resist the "how do you do that" thing. It's what got me into glass
in
the
first place.
and $150 buys alot of fusible glass, right?




--
-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com



--
-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com

nJb wrote:
Kalera Stratton wrote:

That difference is exactly what I'm asking about... can you please
explain? I'm not familiar with more complex controllers than the one
that came on my EK Miller Fusebox.



The controller offered by Arrow Springs appears to be a fine controller.

The controller Liam would need costs $515. I doubt it would have a
switch that cuts power to the elements while the controller remains on,
but maybe so. It likely uses mechanical relays, the one he would build
would operate silently. It would apply power to the elements in short
bursts reducing expansion and contraction of elements, easier on the
elements. The prices I quoted are list, I don't pay anywhere near that.
I built my 100A controller with redundant overtemp protection for right
around $350. If my controller goes down, I'm up and running in minutes.
That makes building worth it alone.

Check this kiln out:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?H2AE2647A


I've got somewhere around $2200 into it, less than 40 hours labor, and
some research. So for that I have a large kiln, primo controller, and
the $400 welding machine that was included in the $2200.

There's nothing wrong with buying. I prefer to build, nobody seems to
offer exactly what I want, and when I build it I know what makes it
tick.

Jack

Wow, that's a real beauty! I think I have kiln envy now.

I often prefer to build my own "stuff"... especially if I need something
that's a bit different from stock. OTOH I've discovered lately that my
near-complete lack of free time is making it more economical to have
someone else build what I want to spec. It's taken me about four
months to complete a one-week studio remodel... shoulda hired someone to
do it, but hindsight is always 20/20.

--
-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com

I think the enjoyment of building it probably makes it worth it. I just
wanted to throw those financial considerations out there, in case it was
something that hadn't come up.

I'd like to build torches, but it's something I haven't had time to look
into. Maybe in 30 years when I "retire"...

liam potts wrote:
If I where to buy a kiln controller with the cal9500 functions I think the
cheapest I can get is a bartlet and its $600 and some change and still does
not store as many programs. For $350 I can get a control that holds one
program or I can build the cal9500 plus I just love building things so I can
say I did it.

"Kalera Stratton" wrote in message
...

That's a good point, if I was in the market for a large kiln or expected
that I would be. However, I was just using my particular situation with
the kiln class to illustrate the fact that sometimes, when you take your
time for labor into consideration, it's less expensive to buy something
than it is to make it.

That's what I was wondering about this particular controller; if it
costs $350 in materials, and then there's the time spent researching,
aquiring parts, and building it, is it actually a less expensive
controller? The price is not far from many commercially-available
multi-segment controllers, and what I am wondering is whether it is
significantly superior to, say, the 30-amp multi-segment controller
available at Arrow Springs? If it is, I'd love it if someone would
explain that to me, because in that case I might be interested in it
myself. If it's not, then I'm wondering if the OP had taken under
consideration that his time might be more efficiently spent making
product to sell for the difference in cash to buy the premade
controller. That's not going to be true in all cases, and for some
people, as Javahut pointed out, it's worth it for the simple pleasure of
building something yourself. I can appreciate the joy of building
things; I am an avid do-it-yourselfer around the house, but a lot of
people overlook the fact that sometimes building something yourself is
not the most economical option.

Charles Spitzer wrote:

"Kalera Stratton" wrote in message
...


I can see your point re; the curiosity, but...


From a purely financial viewpoint, I think I would have to take a good

hard look at that $150 and ask myself whether I would be shortselling my
time by building it myself vs. making salable product. In other words,

it

might COST me more (that I could have spent on glass) to save the $150

vs.

making salable product in the same time frame. There are a LOT of
variables involved, but it's something that self-employed people (or
people who supplement their main income with their art sales) often fail
to take into consideration in the "make it or buy it?" equation.

For example, a fellow not long ago was encouraging me to take a day

class

at the coast (a 3-hour drive) that would teach me to build a small kiln

in

one day. The class was only $150, and materials were included (no
controller, of course.) It was a full-day class, plus of course the

drive

there and back again, and meals... that's about a 14-hour commitment.

Plus

$150. You can buy a small fusing kiln for about $400, shipped, and,

given

14 hours, there is a strong possibility that many artisans could make

the

difference between the cost of the class (plus travel expenses) and the
price of a kiln. If I wanted to build a lot of kilns it would be
completely worth it; I only want one right now. Maybe a few more down

the

road. Not nearly enough to make the cost/benefit ratio tip in favor of

the

class.


well, except for the fact that if you can build a small one, you can

build a

big one (the concept scales). the cost to build a big one may be 2k-3k,

to

buy a big one might be 15k-20k, making your savings be a lot more.



Javahut wrote:


"Kalera Stratton" wrote in message
...



This may not adequately address many people's financial situations,

but

if you're going to put $350 plus labor into building one, what is the
advantage over spending the extra $150 and buying one?

My line of thought usually follows the question, "What am I good at?"
and usually when I answer the question, I find that I end up ahead if

I

put the time into what I'm good at, then sell my work to earn money to
pay someone else to do what I'm not good at, in this case build a
controller. Especially since, for me, it is an endeavor I would engage
in too seldom to ever really *become* good/fast at it.



Learning how to do something new and what do you do when your

controller

fails?

If you know how its built, it is much easier to repair it when it

breaks.

That's not an "if" it breaks, its a "when". and some of us just can't
resist the "how do you do that" thing. It's what got me into glass in
the
first place.
and $150 buys alot of fusible glass, right?





--
-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com



--
-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com




--
-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com