OT Immunizations?? For young and the more mature.

Antibodies, not antigens, Pati. Antigens are what the pathogen displays,
antibodies are generated by one of the responses of your immune system ....

I agree with what somebody else said: since we don't see too many kids with
what used to be common childhood diseases, we forget how bad they are, and
only see the risks of the immunization....

--
Dr. Quilter
http://community.webshots.com/user/mvignali
(take the dog out before replying)
"Pati Cook" wrote in message
...
And my dad had chicken pox 3 times. Some people just don't develop the
antigens, with or without the vaccination. But the majority do.
When I was growing up, it was expected that most kids would at sometimes
have measles, mumps, etc. And some kids died from them. Just as not all
that long ago it was to be expected to have at least some of your children
die before the age of 5. Or for childbirth to kill some women.
Progress has been made in many ways. Most of us give little thought to
many
of the medical advances that are taken for granted today. Yes, vaccines
may
make people sick, but usually not as sick as the disease itself. There
are
exceptions, there usually are to most anything.
However, in the long run it seems that immunizing kids, and having adults
keep their own immunizations current, is a darn good way to prevent many,
many deaths and disabilities.

Pati, in Phx.

"hfw" wrote in message
...
Yup. I got it when I was 40. In the middle of a scorcher 100F. summer. At
first, until the itching began, I thought it was hysterically funny.

Isn't that the worse? I was 32, just coming off of Chemotherapy and I have
never been so sick in all my life. We had just moved to a new town and the
day we moved, DD who was 7 at the time, broke out with them. She had about
a dozen spots and was barely ill. 2 weeks later, I just started feeling not
good and within an hour I was covered in spots. I had to call my mom to
come back out to take care of us. I was a mess. The dog wouldn't even look
at me. DH tried to talk me into going to the doctor, but I said I would die
in that house before I went out looking like that.

I can remember the itching of my scalp the worse. My hair had started to
come back in so it wasn't noticeable, but I bet I got a million scars on my
head from that bout. I didn't hesitate to scratch my head.

God, I was sick.

Cindy

from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ (searching PubMed with 'autism' and
'vaccine'

No evidence for links between autism, MMR and measles virus.
Psychol Med. 2004 Apr;34(3):543-53.
Chen W, Landau S, Sham P, Fombonne E.

Institute of Psychiatry, King's College and Department of Child and
Adolescent Psychiatry, Guy's, King's and St Thomas's School of Medicine,
University of London.

BACKGROUND: We examined whether, in the UK, there is an increased risk of
autism (AD) following exposures, in early life, to: (1) wild measles; (2)
live attenuated measles, alone or in combination as MMR; and (3) the
alteration of the mumps strain within MMR. (snip - they studied 2407 AD
subjects born between 1959-93; and for comparison, 4640 Down's syndrome (DS)
subjects born between 1966-93.) RESULTS: We found no significant association
between AD births and exposure (prenatal and postnatal up to 18 months age)
to population rates of measles infections, and no 'step-up' increase in AD
births associated with the introduction of monovalent measles and MMR
vaccines, and changing mumps strain. An unexpected reduction in AD births of
21% (95% CI 6.9-33.3%; P=0.005) among the post-1987 birth cohorts was
detected.

Vaccine risk perception among reporters of autism after vaccination: vaccine
adverse event reporting system 1990-2001.

Am J Public Health. 2004 Jun;94(6):990-5.



Woo EJ, Ball R, Bostrom A, Shadomy SV, Ball LK, Evans G, Braun M.

Food and Drug Administration, HFM-222, 1401 Rockville Pike, Rockville, MD
20852, USA.

OBJECTIVES: We investigated vaccine risk perception among reporters of
autism to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS). METHODS: We
conducted structured interviews with 124 parents who reported autism and
related disorders to VAERS from 1990 to 2001 and compared results with those
of a published survey of parents in the general population. RESULTS:
Respondents perceived vaccine-preventable diseases as less serious than did
other parents. Only 15% of respondents deemed immunization extremely
important for children's health; two thirds had withheld vaccines from their
children. CONCLUSIONS: Views of parents who believe vaccines injured their
children differ significantly from those of the general population regarding
the benefits of immunization. Understanding the factors that shape this
perspective can improve communication among vaccine providers, policymakers,
and parents/patients.

However, others disagree:

Blaxill MF, Redwood L, Bernard S. Related Articles, Links Thimerosal and
autism? A plausible hypothesis that should not be dismissed.
Med Hypotheses. 2004;62(5):788-94.

--
Dr. Quilter
http://community.webshots.com/user/mvignali
(take the dog out before replying)
"Elizabeth" wrote in message
...
This was on the news in Houston in the last week or two, can't give you a
site. The gist of the item was that while previous reports had denied that
there was any link between immunizations and autism a recently released
study identified a link between immunizations and mice with certain
genetic
combinations -- and emphasized the gene structure -- the implication being
that the immunizations have negative implications on only certain types of
mice. I am not trying to say that it has been proven that immunizations
cause autism in humans; I'm just reporting that some recent research
indicates there may in fact be a connection in some cases.

Elizabeth

"I.E.Z." wrote in message
...

"Elizabeth" wrote in message
...
The latest research report released in the vaccine/autism issue states
that
IN MICE OF A CERTAIN GENETIC STRUCTURE there does appear to be an
increased
incidence of between autistic like symptoms and vaccines.



Cite, please?

Thank you,

Iris

Thats why I would love to see an accurate chart that describes the potential
risks of each vaccine and the potential risks of the disease it it meant to
prevent, plus good solid, well researched numbers tellling exactly how many
children (or whatever the base group is) got each major symptom or side
effect of both disease and vaccine. That really isnt to much to ask is it?
Graphic pictures of the disease's effects might be a great incentive to
reluctant parents.
Diana

"Dr.Quilter" wrote in message
...
Antibodies, not antigens, Pati. Antigens are what the pathogen displays,
antibodies are generated by one of the responses of your immune system
.....

I agree with what somebody else said: since we don't see too many kids
with
what used to be common childhood diseases, we forget how bad they are, and
only see the risks of the immunization....

--
Dr. Quilter
http://community.webshots.com/user/mvignali
(take the dog out before replying)
"Pati Cook" wrote in message
...
And my dad had chicken pox 3 times. Some people just don't develop the
antigens, with or without the vaccination. But the majority do.
When I was growing up, it was expected that most kids would at sometimes
have measles, mumps, etc. And some kids died from them. Just as not
all
that long ago it was to be expected to have at least some of your
children
die before the age of 5. Or for childbirth to kill some women.
Progress has been made in many ways. Most of us give little thought to
many
of the medical advances that are taken for granted today. Yes, vaccines
may
make people sick, but usually not as sick as the disease itself. There
are
exceptions, there usually are to most anything.
However, in the long run it seems that immunizing kids, and having
adults
keep their own immunizations current, is a darn good way to prevent
many,
many deaths and disabilities.

Pati, in Phx.

That was my point...I wasn't saying there was a causational
relationship...but there's obviously a perceived link, or there would be no
hullabaloo. Things can be corrolated without there being a causational
relationship. It's like saying that statistically as ice cream sales
increase, the crime rate goes up...therefore ice cream causes crime. the
statistics are true, but the inference is false. Statistically, the number
of cases of autism has increased, and it happened in the time frame of the
new formulation of some vaccines...but that doesn't mean that one caused the
other....but there appears to be a connection...and it's compounded by the
fact that symptoms of autism tend to be noticed around the same time that
the vaccine is given.

kristen

"Irrational Number" wrote in message
news
Kristen L. Renneker wrote:

I wouldn't think there would be a way to tell if an individual case of
autism was caused by a vaccine...the best reasoning I've heard about
vaccines not being the cause of autism, yet there being a perceived link
is
that most (?) cases of Autism appear around the age of 2 which is when
the
vaccine is given...

There is no link between vaccinations and autism. That
has been debunked through years of research, as well as
a recent article in which 10 of the original 12 scientists
withdrew their support for the paper which first described
this "link". There were a lot of problems with the
research: (1) Sample size of 12 patients (not statistically
significant); (2) Relied on parents' memories years after
the fact (in one case a parent said the autistic behaviour
appeared the day after the vaccination, which makes no sense
biologically); (3) The primary scientist had ties to the
organizations that needed a scientific paper to state a
link between vaccinations and autism (conflict of interest).

If there is indeed such a link, you would think with the
millions of children vaccinated that there would be a
corresponding rise in autism much larger than the one
we currently see (which may be due to better diagnoses
anyway).

-- Anita --

great idea. you might want to pitch it to a grad student in public
health.... it would make a nice thesis!

--
Dr. Quilter
http://community.webshots.com/user/mvignali
(take the dog out before replying)
"Diana Curtis" wrote in message
...
Thats why I would love to see an accurate chart that describes the
potential
risks of each vaccine and the potential risks of the disease it it meant
to
prevent, plus good solid, well researched numbers tellling exactly how
many
children (or whatever the base group is) got each major symptom or side
effect of both disease and vaccine. That really isnt to much to ask is it?
Graphic pictures of the disease's effects might be a great incentive to
reluctant parents.
Diana

"Dr.Quilter" wrote in message
...
Antibodies, not antigens, Pati. Antigens are what the pathogen displays,
antibodies are generated by one of the responses of your immune system
....

I agree with what somebody else said: since we don't see too many kids
with
what used to be common childhood diseases, we forget how bad they are,
and
only see the risks of the immunization....

--
Dr. Quilter
http://community.webshots.com/user/mvignali
(take the dog out before replying)
"Pati Cook" wrote in message
...
And my dad had chicken pox 3 times. Some people just don't develop
the
antigens, with or without the vaccination. But the majority do.
When I was growing up, it was expected that most kids would at
sometimes
have measles, mumps, etc. And some kids died from them. Just as not
all
that long ago it was to be expected to have at least some of your
children
die before the age of 5. Or for childbirth to kill some women.
Progress has been made in many ways. Most of us give little thought
to
many
of the medical advances that are taken for granted today. Yes,
vaccines
may
make people sick, but usually not as sick as the disease itself.
There
are
exceptions, there usually are to most anything.
However, in the long run it seems that immunizing kids, and having
adults
keep their own immunizations current, is a darn good way to prevent
many,
many deaths and disabilities.

Pati, in Phx.

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 20:52:00 -0700, "Dr.Quilter"
wrote:

(reluctant snip of research info)

I find the possibility of the thimerisol link most interesting.

Mostly because the symptoms of some degrees of heavy metals poisoning
can be very very similar to autism.

It is worth noting that _all_ the children in my neighborhood have
elevated lead levels, including Ash.
His levels are not high enough to qualify him for chelation, but they
are high enough to have him on the retest and watch list. Other
children in the neighborhood have been treated for lead poisoning.
The local department of enviromental health can't get past paint
though, they just keep having the landlords seal and repaint
endlessly, instead of looking outside the houses for something else.

I wonder if there is an autism link just not to thimerisol per se, but
more generally to overexposure to heavy metals? The quantity of
mercury in thimerisol may not be deemed harmful to the average child,
but to one who already has above average levels of one or more heavy
metals in the system? An interesting idea to ponder anyway.

We have been considering going to the department of health and haveing
the entire family screened for metals poisoning, lately it has seemed
a better and better idea.

NightMist
--
"It's such a gamble when you get a face"
- Richard Hell