Dear Red States

wrote:

I really just can't stand it when people make statements
that are clearly factually incorrect and easily verifiable.




And I don't like it when people who don't know those professors tell me
that they know better than I do what those professors said.

While I may have been in law school after the changes were set in
motion, these professors were educated in the era when the church
preached "woman's highest calling is as wife and mother", and never
found it necessary to bring their thinking into the modern era.

I got good grades from the younger professors who graded fairly. The
professor from whom I had to take all the classes "for my major" told us
point-blank on the first day of class that he gave 30 points for
classroom participation, and the older students confirmed that he NEVER
called on any woman, which meant that with an A on the exam, I'd still
get only a D for the class. My usual technique of responding without
waiting to be called on (which in other classes had gotten the
professor's grudging respect) simply resulted in this professor acting
like he didn't hear a thing, and talking over me, "Mr. Smith, can you
answer that question?" And Mr. Smith would be congratulated for his
brilliance in parrotting what I'd just said.

You don't get a job in a specialized field by showing up with a grade
report full of Ds in that field, so it simply made more sense to my
career goals to walk away and come back after this remnant of the Old
Guard retired and was replaced by someone who'd give an A for A work
regardless of gender.

We did have a female professor who made sure that all the female
students knew we were welcome in her office, regardless if we were in
her classes or not, because she wanted to offer emotional support to
anyone who was feeling beaten down by the male professors. I had pretty
much made up my mind before my meeting with her, and she confirmed the
wisdom of the decision.

And then life got in the way and I couldn't go back to school. As a
paralegal, I was doing the same work, so it really wasn't necessary to
my happiness to finish the degree.


--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

"On his tombstone, Benjamin Franklin wanted it said not that he had been
rich
but rather that he had been useful."

Finished 10/7/08 - Sun Fun (Dimensions)

WIP: Nativity from "Countdown to Christmas" book, Oriental Kimono
(Janlynn),
MLI The Teacher (gift to the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://cfs-facts.blogspot.com/

lucretia borgia wrote:

Quite, I argued with a few I knew who tended to look down on SAHMs
that they were doing what they wanted to do



I have no problem with those who want to be SAHMs doing it. I have a
problem with SAHMs telling me there's something wrong with me because I
(a) wanted a career and (b) never had children. It's not a matter of
"too selfish to have children"; I worked because my childhood
inculcation was to never be entirely dependent on a man for money, and I
had medical reasons for not having children.

And I have a big problem with men telling me I can't have the career of
my choice because I'm a woman.




--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

"On his tombstone, Benjamin Franklin wanted it said not that he had been
rich
but rather that he had been useful."

Finished 10/7/08 - Sun Fun (Dimensions)

WIP: Nativity from "Countdown to Christmas" book, Oriental Kimono
(Janlynn),
MLI The Teacher (gift to the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://cfs-facts.blogspot.com/

wrote:

I don't,
for example, think that people who choose to have children should
expect to be as advanced in their careers as people who don't have
children and therefore have more time to devote to career-building.
I'm not one who thinks that any of us can "have it all."

Elizabeth


Something we can agree on.

I didn't have kids, therefore, I (of my own volition) pulled most of the
overtime so the moms could get to the day care before the penalty
charges started, and could spend weekends with their kids. Therefore,
even though base salaries within each classification were usually within
$100 of each other, I usually got a much bigger paycheck. One gal saw
my paycheck and pouted "how come you get paid so much more than me?"
She didn't like the response that the top $200 was "her" overtime that I
worked the previous Saturday.

Would I rather have spent Saturday home stitching? Yeah. But someone
had to do the work when she said she'd promised to do something with her
kid and couldn't work on the weekend. And as much as she whined about
the unfairness of me getting the extra money for working on her case,
the next time overtime came up, she didn't want to give up her Saturday,
so guess who got rich at her expense again?

--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

"On his tombstone, Benjamin Franklin wanted it said not that he had been
rich
but rather that he had been useful."

Finished 10/7/08 - Sun Fun (Dimensions)

WIP: Nativity from "Countdown to Christmas" book, Oriental Kimono
(Janlynn),
MLI The Teacher (gift to the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://cfs-facts.blogspot.com/

lucretia borgia wrote:

Just did that conversation with my younger daughter who is concerned
that my youngest grandson (17) has no clear ambition to be anything
yet. I was for not pressing him, he isn't a loafer, I just think he
looks at everything and has not found the one thing that really calls
him yet.



Give him time.

I bounced through several types of law offices before I found the field
that really called me. As one boss pointed out "you were here over 100
hours last week, including till midnight last night, and you bounce in
here Monday morning with a smile on your face!" "Yep, because it's
Monday and I get to do it again! Litigation is FUN!!!!" The adrenaline
rush of trial prep is as good as the best thrill ride.

As opposed to the one field of law that I really dreaded going to work.
(Got a good grade in that class, so it wasn't that the work was hard
for me or I didn't understand it; I just hated what I was doing.)

--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

"On his tombstone, Benjamin Franklin wanted it said not that he had been
rich
but rather that he had been useful."

Finished 10/7/08 - Sun Fun (Dimensions)

WIP: Nativity from "Countdown to Christmas" book, Oriental Kimono
(Janlynn),
MLI The Teacher (gift to the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://cfs-facts.blogspot.com/

Susan Hartman wrote:
They say that most college students change their majors several times. I
think students should be encouraged to *enter* as undecided, and not
declare a major until they've tried a few different things.



Amen. My college operated on that theory, and not only was my major NOT
what I would have declared on Sept. 1, it also wasn't even on my list of
possibilities.

Small school, when you came in June for freshman pre-registration you
were assisted by one of the professors in selecting your classes. I had
4 of the 5, and he suggested that the intro classes in his department
would fulfill a distribution requirement. OK. By the end of first
semester, I was in love.



--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

"On his tombstone, Benjamin Franklin wanted it said not that he had been
rich
but rather that he had been useful."

Finished 10/7/08 - Sun Fun (Dimensions)

WIP: Nativity from "Countdown to Christmas" book, Oriental Kimono
(Janlynn),
MLI The Teacher (gift to the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://cfs-facts.blogspot.com/

Jangchub wrote:
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 20:17:22 GMT, lucretia borgia
wrote:



Undecided sounds good to me. I also suggested if he didn't know,
maybe he is a good case for doing one of those gap years, spending
that year travelling the world. We have relations on just about
every continent, so it would be more than possible for him.


Even if a student has something in mind when they get into University
they network with others and maybe change their ideal career, etc.
Going to Europe is a priceless thing to do during a gap year. I would
do everything anyway to encourage college to any kid. The best market
or industry to get into is the alternative energy R&D field. This is
going to be America's saving grace if we play our cards right. IMO
Victoria

I lived for twelve years in a college town. I couldn't count the number
of kids who had to do an extra year because they changed majors halfway
through. As a result, I ALWAYS tell entering freshers to "take the
smorgasbord" and not declare a major until junior year.

Olwyn Mary in New Orleans.

On Nov 18, 1:32 am, Karen C in California wrote:
wrote:
I really just can't stand it when people make statements
that are clearly factually incorrect and easily verifiable.

And I don't like it when people who don't know those professors tell me
that they know better than I do what those professors said.

I didn't tell you that. Don't put words in my mouth.

You never actually indicated that any of the professors actually SAID
that the Pope had said that. You simply said that it was a religious
school and that they had the Pope behind them.

Elizabeth

On Nov 18, 1:41 am, Karen C in California wrote:
lucretia borgia wrote:

Quite, I argued with a few I knew who tended to look down on SAHMs
that they were doing what they wanted to do

I have no problem with those who want to be SAHMs doing it. I have a
problem with SAHMs telling me there's something wrong with me because I
(a) wanted a career and (b) never had children. It's not a matter of
"too selfish to have children"; I worked because my childhood
inculcation was to never be entirely dependent on a man for money, and I
had medical reasons for not having children.

Wow. I never actually had an American SAHM say that to me. I did
have a Polish woman tell me that once.

And I have a big problem with men telling me I can't have the career of
my choice because I'm a woman.

The best revenge is living well. No man actually ever said that to
me, but when their actions indicated it, I went ahead and did it
anyway, instead of taking a road of lesser resistance.

Elizabeth

On Nov 18, 2:01 am, Karen C in California wrote:
wrote:
I don't,
for example, think that people who choose to have children should
expect to be as advanced in their careers as people who don't have
children and therefore have more time to devote to career-building.
I'm not one who thinks that any of us can "have it all."

Elizabeth

Something we can agree on.
[snip]

Would I rather have spent Saturday home stitching? Yeah. But someone
had to do the work when she said she'd promised to do something with her
kid and couldn't work on the weekend. And as much as she whined about
the unfairness of me getting the extra money for working on her case,
the next time overtime came up, she didn't want to give up her Saturday,
so guess who got rich at her expense again?


Actually, we don't agree. I try really hard to be respectful of women
who make other choices than I do, but you seem to have nothing but
contempt for any of them. It's not a matter of "giving up her
Saturday." It's a matter of having put her children before her job,
for which she was to be commended, not condemned.

Elizabeth

On Nov 18, 2:20 am, Karen C in California wrote:
lucretia borgia wrote:

Just did that conversation with my younger daughter who is concerned
that my youngest grandson (17) has no clear ambition to be anything
yet. I was for not pressing him, he isn't a loafer, I just think he
looks at everything and has not found the one thing that really calls
him yet.

Give him time.

I bounced through several types of law offices before I found the field
that really called me. As one boss pointed out "you were here over 100
hours last week, including till midnight last night, and you bounce in
here Monday morning with a smile on your face!" "Yep, because it's
Monday and I get to do it again! Litigation is FUN!!!!" The adrenaline
rush of trial prep is as good as the best thrill ride.

If you were in litigation, how is it that you continue to claim that
as a paralegal you could do everything the lawyers could do, when
that's clearly not the case?

Elizabeth