Basic wheel throwing question - centering

Hello.

I'm taking a Beginner Wheel Throwing Class at a local studio, but it
turns out I'm the only beginner there, and after about 15 minutes of
demonstration, the instructor cut us loose. In the two hour class,
everyone made 3 or 4 bowls apiece, and I could barely get the clay to
center on the wheel. A couple of times I tried to get it to "cone up"
- I think that's where you bring the clay up into a cylinder - and at
that point it would usually break off the wheel.

My instructor's getting really impatient with me, I think he wants me
to ask him more specific questions, and I've never done this before,
I'm not sure what to ask. I can tell you this: when I'm trying to
center, most of the clay comes off in my hands or gets on the wheel,
but the lump of clay acutally on the wheel doesn't really center at
all.

I wet my hands constantly, and yet the clay on the wheel seems almost
constantly dry.

Anyway, when I asked the instructor how to practice on my own (I don't
want to get behind in the class, and I guess I'm already four bowls
behind), he said, "centering," but I'm not even sure how to go about
that. I am going to try to practice before the next class no matter
what, I'm just writing here asking for suggestions so I don't waste
too much time and clay when I go in for my practice time.

Also, my instructor kept switching hands on me - honestly, I think he
said the left hand holds the clay to the side and the right hand
pushes it down - this got me absolutely nowhere, and then I noticed
the other people in class were doing the opposite... anyway, as you
can see, I'm completely and totally confused.

I still want to learn, though. I won't drop the class, even if it
really is much more advanced than I thought.

Any advice you all could give me would be most helpful.

Thanks,
Heather

On 4 Oct 2003 09:32:39 -0700, (Elric) wrote:

Hello.

I'm taking a Beginner Wheel Throwing Class at a local studio, but it
turns out I'm the only beginner there, and after about 15 minutes of
demonstration, the instructor cut us loose. In the two hour class,
everyone made 3 or 4 bowls apiece, and I could barely get the clay to
center on the wheel. A couple of times I tried to get it to "cone up"
- I think that's where you bring the clay up into a cylinder - and at
that point it would usually break off the wheel.

My instructor's getting really impatient with me, I think he wants me
to ask him more specific questions, and I've never done this before,
I'm not sure what to ask. I can tell you this: when I'm trying to
center, most of the clay comes off in my hands or gets on the wheel,
but the lump of clay acutally on the wheel doesn't really center at
all.

I wet my hands constantly, and yet the clay on the wheel seems almost
constantly dry.

Anyway, when I asked the instructor how to practice on my own (I don't
want to get behind in the class, and I guess I'm already four bowls
behind), he said, "centering," but I'm not even sure how to go about
that. I am going to try to practice before the next class no matter
what, I'm just writing here asking for suggestions so I don't waste
too much time and clay when I go in for my practice time.

Also, my instructor kept switching hands on me - honestly, I think he
said the left hand holds the clay to the side and the right hand
pushes it down - this got me absolutely nowhere, and then I noticed
the other people in class were doing the opposite... anyway, as you
can see, I'm completely and totally confused.

I still want to learn, though. I won't drop the class, even if it
really is much more advanced than I thought.

Any advice you all could give me would be most helpful.

Thanks,
Heather

What a bum of an instructor!

If you search on www.google.com for "clay center" you can find a
number of pages with pictures and descriptions of how to center. I
just looked at a couple, but www.jhpottery.com/tutorial/center.htm
looks pretty good. Remember to brace your left elbow on your hip or
leg. Your left hand should not go woogity-woogity at all.

A couple of other thoughts:
1) use lots of water
2) use soft clay

Learning to center is like riding a bike. It takes some practice and
at some point, it will just seem to come to you.

deg

In article ,
Elric wrote:
snip
Anyway, when I asked the instructor how to practice on my own (I don't
want to get behind in the class, and I guess I'm already four bowls
behind), he said, "centering," but I'm not even sure how to go about
that. I am going to try to practice before the next class no matter
what, I'm just writing here asking for suggestions so I don't waste
too much time and clay when I go in for my practice time.

Thanks,
Heather

Let's see if I can clarify how *I* would center. First of all, as a
beginner, don't try a large piece of clay. Start with about a pound
or pound and a half. Be sure it's well wedged, and fairly soft. Hard
clay is hard to center. When you've wedged it well, pat it into a
round ball.

Place it in the center of your bat with a good "whack" to start
attaching it to the bat. Squeeze a bit of water over it with your
sponge, and wet your hands. Start the wheel, and lean into the clay a
bit from the top to attach it to the bat.

Press into the base of the lump of clay with the heel of your left
hand, while anchoring your left elbow to your body to keep it strong.
Press downwards on the top of the ball of clay with an equal force to
the left hand, using your right hand in a fist (use the soft pad of
the side of your fist--not the fingers).

Keep your hands wet, and give a little squeeze of water over the ball
of clay with your sponge to be sure it's not drying out.

Keep the back and forth pressures of the top and sides going until you
feel the clay kind of snap into place.

Don't stop the wheel with your hands still in place. Be sure to
slowly and evenly remove them so that you don't throw your clay out of
center again.

The problems you mentioned with coning up sound like you squeezed too
hard and broke the clay off in the middle. The problems with the clay
coming off in your hands sounds like the ball of clay maybe was placed
on the bat too far off center to begin with and you were "shaving" the
clay with your hands instead of centering. Also clay peeling off in
your hands could be that sharper parts of your hands are doing the
work instead of the padded parts of your hands.

It's hard to describe this in writing, so I hope I've been a bit
helpful. Centering is a hard thing to get right at first, but it's
vital. Keep practicing! Maybe your teacher can sit with you and
place your hands for you. Oh, that reminds me--if you're using an
electric wheel, try to sit as close to it as you possibly can. Get
the wheel right between your legs, so that your head and body are
practically directly over the wheel head. People tend to throw in the
direction of their nose, so you want your nose to be as vertical as
possible to the top of your clay.

Deb R.

Those are all good suggestions, but first let's get to the
start of it.
Which hand are you (right or left?)
The wheel should rotate the "opposite" way if you are leftie
(counter clockwise).
For my beginners class, I too couldn't center to save my life.
Six two hour long classes into the semester, still no luck.
On a class break, the (very frustrated) instructor came out to talk to
the very frustrated student (me)
about it. I was smoking a cigarette. He watched me for a time
as we talked, and when class started, came back in, threw
the reversing switch on the wheel, and said "Now...center"
Boom! Like someone hit me with a cattle prod. Immediate results.
Check your wheel direction!

Also, when you center, tuck your primary hand's elbow
(left or right) into your (same side) thigh. That puts your
whole body behind it. You have to control the clay, don't
let it control you.

Don't squeeze the clay. Press it on the side
(primary hand), using the other hand to make sure you don't
press it too far. Squeezing is for pinch pots, not centering.
Press toward the center, not at an angle. Imagine a "T" with the
top of the "T" in a horizontal line at the furthest edge of the ball of
clay.
You should be pressing along the shaft of the "T", toward the center
of the ball of clay.

When you release (to rewet your hand, for example), don't just "let go".
Slowly(!!!) back off on the pressure (both hands) until the clay is freely
rotating on it's own.
Clay remembers the last thing you did to it. Releasing it quickly
means that all the force you were putting on it is going to cause it to
wobble.
And the centrifugal force of the wheel is going to do all it can to help
that wobble.

Take your time. The clay has been around for thousands of years :)
You're trying to make it do something new in a matter of minutes. It is set
in it's ways, and needs time to adjust to the changes... and so do you.

Hope that helps,
Wayne in Key West

"wayneinkeywest" wrote in message
.. .
Those are all good suggestions, but first let's get to the
start of it.
Which hand are you (right or left?)
The wheel should rotate the "opposite" way if you are leftie
(counter clockwise).
For my beginners class, I too couldn't center to save my life.
Six two hour long classes into the semester, still no luck.
On a class break, the (very frustrated) instructor came out to talk to
the very frustrated student (me)
about it. I was smoking a cigarette. He watched me for a time
as we talked, and when class started, came back in, threw
the reversing switch on the wheel, and said "Now...center"
Boom! Like someone hit me with a cattle prod. Immediate results.
Check your wheel direction!

Also, when you center, tuck your primary hand's elbow
(left or right) into your (same side) thigh. That puts your
whole body behind it. You have to control the clay, don't
let it control you.

Don't squeeze the clay. Press it on the side
(primary hand), using the other hand to make sure you don't
press it too far. Squeezing is for pinch pots, not centering.
Press toward the center, not at an angle. Imagine a "T" with the
top of the "T" in a horizontal line at the furthest edge of the ball of
clay.
You should be pressing along the shaft of the "T", toward the center
of the ball of clay.

When you release (to rewet your hand, for example), don't just "let go".
Slowly(!!!) back off on the pressure (both hands) until the clay is
freely
rotating on it's own.
Clay remembers the last thing you did to it. Releasing it quickly
means that all the force you were putting on it is going to cause it to
wobble.
And the centrifugal force of the wheel is going to do all it can to help
that wobble.

Take your time. The clay has been around for thousands of years :)
You're trying to make it do something new in a matter of minutes. It is
set
in it's ways, and needs time to adjust to the changes... and so do you.

Hope that helps,
Wayne in Key West




While I agree with what you say, I am left handed but have always thrown on
a wheel going anti-clock (much to the amusement of most potters). It is
possible to throw with the wheel head going the western way. I was told that
Japanise potters throw clockwise......but cant confirm that. If this is the
case that would imply that the wheel is going backwards if right handed and
Japanise.

Anyway.... back to the problem..... any teacher that looses interest or
patience with a beginner should not be teaching, 5 minutes giving a beginner
one to one tuition is probably worth hours spent "self teaching" and ending
up with a disillusioned student.

Kind Regards

Kevin.

I'm righthanded but throw lefthanded, I need my "smart hand" inside the
bowl.
Les

Wow, you guys are fantastic, and you responded so quickly! Thanks so
much.

As to the left handed/right handed issue, I was wondering about that.
I'm right handed, but there was evidence early in my life that I could
have originally been left handed or ambidextrous. A couple of
elementary school teachers enfored the right handed-ness, and I've
never, ever been able to tell my right from my left. Moreover, there
are a few things I naturally do with my left hand.

I know I'm an extreme beginner, but I can tell you that the hand
positioning versus how the wheel is turning seems fairly unnatural to
me, like I'm helping the clay stay off center.

However, a lot of the suggestions mentioned here make more sense than
what was going on in class, so now I've got lots of stuff to try.

I've printed out the web page mentioned here, and I've also got a
couple of books from the library.

I've gotten some great advice from you all here. Now, I'm going to go
to the studio and put it into *practice*.

Thanks again,
Heather


"Kevin Baldwin" wrote in message ...
funny you should say that....for bowls I do the same thing, throw right
handed for the same reason.
I am ambidextrous, I write lefthanded but most other things I do
righthanded. Pottery a bit of both.
Regards
Kevin.

wrote in message news:s6Ufb.54194$a16.30132@lakeread01...
I'm righthanded but throw lefthanded, I need my "smart hand" inside the
bowl.
Les

Hi, Heather,
It looks like you have received a lot of good advise and probably don't need
any more at this point. What I want to say is not advise but rather just
some observations about centering clay. It is probably one of the most
difficult steps in wheel throwing. Part of the problem that is that clay is
a living thing. It has a mind and a memory of it's own. It isn't easy to
control. I spend some time wedging the clay before I plunk it on the wheel.
Wedging is important as it is allowing your hands to get accustomed to the
clay. When you push on the clay it pushes back. It responds to each person
differently. One's hands have to learn how to push on the clay in order to
coax the clay into the center. Sometimes if is enlightening to watch a real
master to throw pots. It looks like magic.

When you are just starting out I think it is important not to worry about
getting a certain number of pot thrown. Perhaps you could look at this first
phase as getting to know the clay. The fact that it may seem as though it
is taking you longer to learn centering doesn't in the long run means
anything.

I am curious. What are your reasons for taking a pottery class?

B. Macdugal


"Elric" wrote in message
om...
Wow, you guys are fantastic, and you responded so quickly! Thanks so
much.

As to the left handed/right handed issue, I was wondering about that.
I'm right handed, but there was evidence early in my life that I could
have originally been left handed or ambidextrous. A couple of
elementary school teachers enfored the right handed-ness, and I've
never, ever been able to tell my right from my left. Moreover, there
are a few things I naturally do with my left hand.

I know I'm an extreme beginner, but I can tell you that the hand
positioning versus how the wheel is turning seems fairly unnatural to
me, like I'm helping the clay stay off center.

However, a lot of the suggestions mentioned here make more sense than
what was going on in class, so now I've got lots of stuff to try.

I've printed out the web page mentioned here, and I've also got a
couple of books from the library.

I've gotten some great advice from you all here. Now, I'm going to go
to the studio and put it into *practice*.

Thanks again,
Heather


"Kevin Baldwin" wrote in message
...
funny you should say that....for bowls I do the same thing, throw right
handed for the same reason.
I am ambidextrous, I write lefthanded but most other things I do
righthanded. Pottery a bit of both.
Regards
Kevin.

wrote in message
news:s6Ufb.54194$a16.30132@lakeread01...
I'm righthanded but throw lefthanded, I need my "smart hand" inside
the
bowl.
Les

"Elric" wrote in message
om...
Hello.

I'm taking a Beginner Wheel Throwing Class at a local studio, but it
turns out I'm the only beginner there, and after about 15 minutes of
demonstration, the instructor cut us loose. In the two hour class,
everyone made 3 or 4 bowls apiece, and I could barely get the clay to
center on the wheel. A couple of times I tried to get it to "cone up"
- I think that's where you bring the clay up into a cylinder - and at
that point it would usually break off the wheel.

My instructor's getting really impatient with me, I think he wants me
to ask him more specific questions, and I've never done this before,
I'm not sure what to ask. I can tell you this: when I'm trying to
center, most of the clay comes off in my hands or gets on the wheel,
but the lump of clay acutally on the wheel doesn't really center at
all.

I wet my hands constantly, and yet the clay on the wheel seems almost
constantly dry.

Anyway, when I asked the instructor how to practice on my own (I don't
want to get behind in the class, and I guess I'm already four bowls
behind), he said, "centering," but I'm not even sure how to go about
that. I am going to try to practice before the next class no matter
what, I'm just writing here asking for suggestions so I don't waste
too much time and clay when I go in for my practice time.

Also, my instructor kept switching hands on me - honestly, I think he
said the left hand holds the clay to the side and the right hand
pushes it down - this got me absolutely nowhere, and then I noticed
the other people in class were doing the opposite... anyway, as you
can see, I'm completely and totally confused.

I still want to learn, though. I won't drop the class, even if it
really is much more advanced than I thought.

Any advice you all could give me would be most helpful.

Thanks,
Heather

Well you have received lots of advise about centring. I teach beginners
pottery and I agree with Dewitt you have an unhelpful teacher. I would
suggest that you are more assertive and ask for more help. I generally
demonstrate, then give students a go, if they are having difficulty in
centring I centre for them so that they can feel what centred clay is like
and have a go at lifting the clay. Then next time if they are having
difficulty I (shock horror) touch them and guide their hands to the correct
positions. Show this email to your tutor ) if you like.
Very quickly.
Wedge fairly soft clay well (if it is too dry slice into 1in/2cm thick
slabs, dip in clean water and let sit for ten minutes before wedging)
Roll into 1 pound 500gm balls.
Place firmly into centre of wheel head or bat on wheel head
Wheel anti clockwise for righthanded, clockwise for lefthanded
With clay wetted down and hands wet, push clay down firmly to form suction.
Then squeezing together to push clay up into a slight cone, (don't need too
high)
Then (for right handed, reverse if desired) place right hand around clay on
right hand side and back of clay.
Left hand on top.
Left hand presses clay into right hand
Right hand holds it steady and therefore centres it.
Always brace yourself on wheel or with elbows tucked in.
Ok this is the method I teach and it works for me and my students seem to be
able to learn in this way.
Good luck

I've been doing this for about 20 years and still have trouble
centering. I have had marvelous teachers. Everyone around me was
throwing beautiful pots. All I ever seemed to throw was clay. The
wheels in the classroom were in groups of four. The group I sat with
put me next to the wall so that when the clay flew off my bat it would
hit the wall and not one of their pots! Fortunately, I prefer to
hand-build and sculpt.

After many years on my own and practicing by miself in my garage, I
finally realized that I was trying too hard. I was trying to muscle the
clay into place. The middle part of the clay is always centered. All
you have to do is arrange the outer layers around that center. I backed
off the strength moves and am now centering much better.

I'll probably never be very good with the wheel, but I couldn't bear to
give up until I had learned this basic skill.

Since my classroom days, I have learned to meditate and I find that
putting myself into the same relaxed mode I use for meditation helps
enormously.

Good luck,

Jan C.