A crafts forum. CraftBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » CraftBanter forum » Craft related newsgroups » Beads
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Lampworking - need torch advice.



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 4th 03, 05:59 AM
BethF
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lampworking - need torch advice.


anyone want to give me advice about my first torch?



I am looking to buy my first torch and want to talk to some lampworkers
before i decide if i want to go cheap and mapp and get the hothead or get
something o2/ propane?

Whats the differences in safety/convenience/flexibility?

I do have access to o2, boyfriends father is a welder, but thinking that I
might be better off with the hothead to start with - its so cheap I wouldn't
mind tossing it if I decide to get a better torch. And while I think I
might like to use pyrex some day, maybe it wouldnt' kill me to walk before I
run.


Thanks in advance for any advice you have to offer.

Also interested in :

Your favorite beginners book

Your favorite websites and listservs


Any other gems you have to offer.




Ads
  #2  
Old July 4th 03, 02:05 PM
Louis Cage
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

First off, take a class if you haven't done so. Find a reputable teacher
and go for it. Some things are easier learned by being shown how than
through a book. If you get a good teacher, you will avoid forming bad
habits at the outset that you will have to unlearn later.
Where are you located? Someone here can give recommendations for a teacher
I'm sure.

Torches:
Hotheads are loud.
The flame is cool and slow to work with, it is bushy (it doesn't have
clearly defined edges to work with), and you can't adjust it to do fine
work.
Unless you get a large refillable container, the 1 lb MAPP gas bottles need
to be changed every 30 minutes or so to get the most use out of them and
then you have to throw these metal containers in the already overtaxed
landfills.
If you make beads 10 hours a week, in less than 1 year you will spend more
money to operate one that it would to buy and operate a minor burner.

Minor burners are quiet.
Not only can you adjust the flame size on a minor, but you can adjust its
composition (oxygen/gas ratio). The flame is adequate for doing work with
borosilicate.
One tank of propane (the kind you use on a gas grill) should last 6 months
to a year and it can be refilled for about what two bottles of MAPP gas
cost.
Minor burners are the workhorses of the beadmaking world.
The original outlay is a bit more, but not prohibitive. Plus if you decide
to get rid of it, it would be easier to sell. Check Ebay and such. You
often find used Hotheads, but rarely do you find used Minors. There is a
reason for this.
You can never go wrong buying good tools.
There are other good torches out there, but I can't think of one that offers
a better usability/price ratio.

Favorite books:
Making Glass Beads by Cindy Jenkins (ironically she either owns the Hothead
or is highly involved with that company) - excellent beginners books. Lotsa
pretty pictures. Also it has a sequence of techniques that could be used as
a primer.

More Than You Ever Wanted to Know About Glass Beadmaking by Jim Kervin -
excellent reference book for techniques. Has a good section on setting up a
studio. Many techniques explored in detail. Take the title seriously. It
is a reference book you will use for years.

Contemporary Lampworking by Bandau Durham - this is mostly oriented towards
borosilicate work, but has a great section on setting up a studio and has
some parts on soft glass (like Moretti) and beadmaking

After you have been making beads a while, check out Jim Kervin's series of
small book profiling individual beadmakers and their techniques. Last I
heard there were four: Leah Fairbanks, Kim Fowle, Sharon Peters and Jim
Smiricich.

In lieu of a teacher, there are a number of videos out there. Lewis Wilson
has made the most. Kim Fowle has one or two. There are some others. They
are all equally boring but informative.

Websites and such:
International Society of Glass Beadmakers has a site with a forum and such

Wet Canvas is a place for glass auctions

rec.crafts.glass - this newsgroups is more oriented toward glassblowing,
fusing and stained glass. But more & more lampworkers are starting to hang
out there

Suppliers:
C&R Loo - usually the best prices and overall selection of glass

Frantz Glass - has greatest selection of Moretti colors, often they will get
colors in before anyone else does, and good prices. They are trying to stay
up on all the latest tools and such.

Arrow Springs Glass - Good prices and selection. An ever expanding catalog

Glasscrafter, Inc. (there is another company called Glasscrafters out of FL
that is more oriented toward stained glass) - they have higher prices, but
often have tools that are hard to find elsewhere

Wale Apparatus - their prices are often a bit high also, but they too have
unusual tools

Sundance - I really like their kilns. Inexpensive, reliable, and easy to
service if something does go wrong. Good selection of glass and tools. I
have always received good service from them and I have never heard a bad
report on them from anyone I knew personally, but there are those on the
newsgroups who say they have had problems.

--
There are no mistakes, only unexplored techniques



  #3  
Old July 4th 03, 03:00 PM
CLP
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

What fantastic info! You should be a link on Dr. Sooz's list!

Live and be well

"Louis Cage" wrote in message
. ..
First off, take a class if you haven't done so. Find a reputable teacher
and go for it. Some things are easier learned by being shown how than
through a book. If you get a good teacher, you will avoid forming bad
habits at the outset that you will have to unlearn later.
Where are you located? Someone here can give recommendations for a

teacher
I'm sure.

Torches:
Hotheads are loud.
The flame is cool and slow to work with, it is bushy (it doesn't have
clearly defined edges to work with), and you can't adjust it to do fine
work.
Unless you get a large refillable container, the 1 lb MAPP gas bottles

need
to be changed every 30 minutes or so to get the most use out of them and
then you have to throw these metal containers in the already overtaxed
landfills.
If you make beads 10 hours a week, in less than 1 year you will spend more
money to operate one that it would to buy and operate a minor burner.

Minor burners are quiet.
Not only can you adjust the flame size on a minor, but you can adjust its
composition (oxygen/gas ratio). The flame is adequate for doing work

with
borosilicate.
One tank of propane (the kind you use on a gas grill) should last 6 months
to a year and it can be refilled for about what two bottles of MAPP gas
cost.
Minor burners are the workhorses of the beadmaking world.
The original outlay is a bit more, but not prohibitive. Plus if you

decide
to get rid of it, it would be easier to sell. Check Ebay and such. You
often find used Hotheads, but rarely do you find used Minors. There is a
reason for this.
You can never go wrong buying good tools.
There are other good torches out there, but I can't think of one that

offers
a better usability/price ratio.

Favorite books:
Making Glass Beads by Cindy Jenkins (ironically she either owns the

Hothead
or is highly involved with that company) - excellent beginners books.

Lotsa
pretty pictures. Also it has a sequence of techniques that could be used

as
a primer.

More Than You Ever Wanted to Know About Glass Beadmaking by Jim Kervin -
excellent reference book for techniques. Has a good section on setting up

a
studio. Many techniques explored in detail. Take the title seriously.

It
is a reference book you will use for years.

Contemporary Lampworking by Bandau Durham - this is mostly oriented

towards
borosilicate work, but has a great section on setting up a studio and has
some parts on soft glass (like Moretti) and beadmaking

After you have been making beads a while, check out Jim Kervin's series

of
small book profiling individual beadmakers and their techniques. Last I
heard there were four: Leah Fairbanks, Kim Fowle, Sharon Peters and Jim
Smiricich.

In lieu of a teacher, there are a number of videos out there. Lewis

Wilson
has made the most. Kim Fowle has one or two. There are some others.

They
are all equally boring but informative.

Websites and such:
International Society of Glass Beadmakers has a site with a forum and such

Wet Canvas is a place for glass auctions

rec.crafts.glass - this newsgroups is more oriented toward glassblowing,
fusing and stained glass. But more & more lampworkers are starting to

hang
out there

Suppliers:
C&R Loo - usually the best prices and overall selection of glass

Frantz Glass - has greatest selection of Moretti colors, often they will

get
colors in before anyone else does, and good prices. They are trying to

stay
up on all the latest tools and such.

Arrow Springs Glass - Good prices and selection. An ever expanding

catalog

Glasscrafter, Inc. (there is another company called Glasscrafters out of

FL
that is more oriented toward stained glass) - they have higher prices, but
often have tools that are hard to find elsewhere

Wale Apparatus - their prices are often a bit high also, but they too have
unusual tools

Sundance - I really like their kilns. Inexpensive, reliable, and easy to
service if something does go wrong. Good selection of glass and tools. I
have always received good service from them and I have never heard a bad
report on them from anyone I knew personally, but there are those on the
newsgroups who say they have had problems.

--
There are no mistakes, only unexplored techniques





  #4  
Old July 4th 03, 03:01 PM
Laurie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Wow...Louis, all excellent advice.





The Use of Foul Language in Written Communication: The Tiny Rumblings of the
Ineffectual and Stunted Thinker. The Inability to Think Beyond The Obivious and
The Crude. ~~~Henry A. Byrne
  #5  
Old July 4th 03, 04:36 PM
D Brock
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Okay, is it possible to both agree and disagree at the same time?

First, I'll say that I agree with pretty much everything Louis said, spot
on. But even so, I think you might still want to consider the hothead for
starters. Basically because the initial investment is cheaper, and so, if
you decide not to pursue the hobby, or only to pursue it on a limited basis,
you don't have a big investment in. (Hothead ~$80 rather than Minor Burner
at ~$170, no hoses ~$30, flashback arrestors ~$40, regulators ~$140, etc.)
Also, many people are intimidated by setting up the propane-oxygen setup,
starting off with a hothead is lots more straightforward.

In BethF's case (Sorry, BethF, but you didn't give us any other name to
use!), I think she said she said boyfriend's father is a welder, so maybe
she'll have access to much of the "plumbing" for free, as well as help
setting up, so those last two arguments would be less important.

And, particularly since BethF did mention the thought of "walking before you
run" --- the hothead option is certainly a reasonable way of doing that.
It's not the ideal torch, but you can have plenty of fun and get quite a way
into the hobby with it.

But like I started out saying, Louis was spot on in his comments. My
personal situation is that I started out on a hothead at the beginning of
the year, and just moved to a propane-oxygen system. Fuel cost and ease,
and flame control were my main goals, and the noise reduction was a
fantastic surprise! I usually wore earplugs when working with the hothead,
don't need 'em with the propane-oxygen setup.

If you either now or later end up on propane+oxygen, you might also consider
an oxygen concentrator unit. (Again, depends on how easily and cheaply you
can get oxygen.)

Good luck with whatever you choose, keep us updated on your choice!

--Dave Brock


"Louis Cage" wrote in message
. ..
First off, take a class if you haven't done so. Find a reputable teacher
and go for it. Some things are easier learned by being shown how than
through a book. If you get a good teacher, you will avoid forming bad
habits at the outset that you will have to unlearn later.
Where are you located? Someone here can give recommendations for a

teacher
I'm sure.

Torches:
Hotheads are loud.
The flame is cool and slow to work with, it is bushy (it doesn't have
clearly defined edges to work with), and you can't adjust it to do fine
work.
Unless you get a large refillable container, the 1 lb MAPP gas bottles

need
to be changed every 30 minutes or so to get the most use out of them and
then you have to throw these metal containers in the already overtaxed
landfills.
If you make beads 10 hours a week, in less than 1 year you will spend more
money to operate one that it would to buy and operate a minor burner.

Minor burners are quiet.
Not only can you adjust the flame size on a minor, but you can adjust its
composition (oxygen/gas ratio). The flame is adequate for doing work

with
borosilicate.
One tank of propane (the kind you use on a gas grill) should last 6 months
to a year and it can be refilled for about what two bottles of MAPP gas
cost.
Minor burners are the workhorses of the beadmaking world.
The original outlay is a bit more, but not prohibitive. Plus if you

decide
to get rid of it, it would be easier to sell. Check Ebay and such. You
often find used Hotheads, but rarely do you find used Minors. There is a
reason for this.
You can never go wrong buying good tools.
There are other good torches out there, but I can't think of one that

offers
a better usability/price ratio.

Favorite books:
Making Glass Beads by Cindy Jenkins (ironically she either owns the

Hothead
or is highly involved with that company) - excellent beginners books.

Lotsa
pretty pictures. Also it has a sequence of techniques that could be used

as
a primer.

More Than You Ever Wanted to Know About Glass Beadmaking by Jim Kervin -
excellent reference book for techniques. Has a good section on setting up

a
studio. Many techniques explored in detail. Take the title seriously.

It
is a reference book you will use for years.

Contemporary Lampworking by Bandau Durham - this is mostly oriented

towards
borosilicate work, but has a great section on setting up a studio and has
some parts on soft glass (like Moretti) and beadmaking

After you have been making beads a while, check out Jim Kervin's series

of
small book profiling individual beadmakers and their techniques. Last I
heard there were four: Leah Fairbanks, Kim Fowle, Sharon Peters and Jim
Smiricich.

In lieu of a teacher, there are a number of videos out there. Lewis

Wilson
has made the most. Kim Fowle has one or two. There are some others.

They
are all equally boring but informative.

Websites and such:
International Society of Glass Beadmakers has a site with a forum and such

Wet Canvas is a place for glass auctions

rec.crafts.glass - this newsgroups is more oriented toward glassblowing,
fusing and stained glass. But more & more lampworkers are starting to

hang
out there

Suppliers:
C&R Loo - usually the best prices and overall selection of glass

Frantz Glass - has greatest selection of Moretti colors, often they will

get
colors in before anyone else does, and good prices. They are trying to

stay
up on all the latest tools and such.

Arrow Springs Glass - Good prices and selection. An ever expanding

catalog

Glasscrafter, Inc. (there is another company called Glasscrafters out of

FL
that is more oriented toward stained glass) - they have higher prices, but
often have tools that are hard to find elsewhere

Wale Apparatus - their prices are often a bit high also, but they too have
unusual tools

Sundance - I really like their kilns. Inexpensive, reliable, and easy to
service if something does go wrong. Good selection of glass and tools. I
have always received good service from them and I have never heard a bad
report on them from anyone I knew personally, but there are those on the
newsgroups who say they have had problems.

--
There are no mistakes, only unexplored techniques





  #6  
Old July 4th 03, 11:12 PM
Laurie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

(Hothead ~$80 rather than Minor Burner
at ~$170, no hoses ~$30, flashback arrestors ~$40, regulators ~$140, etc.)


However....A used minor and hookups will sell for nearly the amount purchased.
And, as Louis said, used hot heads don't get much on the dollar..... I have
nothing against the Hot Head....but starting on a minor gives a beginner a more
pure and better experience and an opportunity to recoup a good portion of the
amount spent.





The Use of Foul Language in Written Communication: The Tiny Rumblings of the
Ineffectual and Stunted Thinker. The Inability to Think Beyond The Obivious and
The Crude. ~~~Henry A. Byrne
  #7  
Old July 5th 03, 03:11 AM
BethF
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Louis Cage" wrote in message
. ..
First off, take a class if you haven't done so. Find a reputable teacher
and go for it. Some things are easier learned by being shown how than
through a book. If you get a good teacher, you will avoid forming bad
habits at the outset that you will have to unlearn later.
Where are you located? Someone here can give recommendations for a

teacher
I'm sure.



Lois, thank your for taking the time to write such a detailed answer for
me - its greatly appreciated!!

i know there is a strong lampworking community in anchorage (my location)
and i bet you someone must be giving classes!

my tendency is always to buy the better tool, and now you have given me the
excuse - especially with my easy access to an o2 tank, i have no excuse not
to get the minor!

Thank you so much!!

Ordering books as i type.




  #8  
Old July 8th 03, 05:09 PM
D Brock
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

At the risk of sounding like the recurring voice of cheapness and shoddyness
(!), I'll pipe up once more. In particular, since others considering
starting in lampworking (but not in BethF's specific situation) may also
read these responses in order to guide them.

So, while I do agree with the "buy the best tool you can afford" tenet, I
think that there should be some consideration of "good enough tool for the
user". In other words, when I started playing tennis, I bought a fairly
cheap racket that was fine for a beginner. Then, later, when I decided that
I really liked the sport and wanted to continue in it more seriously, and
was getting good enough to notice the difference, then I put out the money
for better equipment.

Is a hothead the best torch for an experienced user? No. Is a hothead an
*adequate* torch to start off with? I believe yes. (In fact, there have
been some posters who mentioned the slowness of the hothead flame as being a
benefit to learners.)

My main point is that if someone wants to get started in lampworking, but
isn't ready/able to put out the cost of the whole oxy+propane system, they
should not feel that the hothead option is a bad or unsuitable option.

--Dave


  #9  
Old July 9th 03, 12:26 AM
Kalera Stratton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
"D Brock" wrote:

At the risk of sounding like the recurring voice of cheapness and shoddyness
(!), I'll pipe up once more. In particular, since others considering
starting in lampworking (but not in BethF's specific situation) may also
read these responses in order to guide them.

So, while I do agree with the "buy the best tool you can afford" tenet, I
think that there should be some consideration of "good enough tool for the
user". In other words, when I started playing tennis, I bought a fairly
cheap racket that was fine for a beginner. Then, later, when I decided that
I really liked the sport and wanted to continue in it more seriously, and
was getting good enough to notice the difference, then I put out the money
for better equipment.

Is a hothead the best torch for an experienced user? No. Is a hothead an
*adequate* torch to start off with? I believe yes. (In fact, there have
been some posters who mentioned the slowness of the hothead flame as being a
benefit to learners.)

My main point is that if someone wants to get started in lampworking, but
isn't ready/able to put out the cost of the whole oxy+propane system, they
should not feel that the hothead option is a bad or unsuitable option.

--Dave


I used and anjoyed my Hot Head for a LOOOONG, LOOOONG time before I was
able to afford to upgrade. If there had been ANY way I could afford it,
I would have gotten a Minor, but I couldn't, and in the end I was only
out $40. All my glass, all my tools, all my accessories, I use with my
new torch. To think about it another way, say you want to play with
glass but you can't afford a Minor for a few months. You get to have the
Hot Head NOW and play with glass NOW, and then in four months get a
Minor... you just paid $10 a month to get to play with glass when
otherwise you would have had zip. That's a pretty good deal.

Hot Heads have their place.

--
-Kalera
Mom of Juliet, 5, Sam, 3, and Ophelia, born 5/31/03
Wife of the incomparable Moxley of www.spaceplex.com
See us at www.strattonhome.org
  #10  
Old July 9th 03, 12:41 AM
Laurie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hot Heads have their place.



Of course, they do.





The Use of Foul Language in Written Communication: The Tiny Rumblings of the
Ineffectual and Stunted Thinker. The Inability to Think Beyond The Obivious and
The Crude. ~~~Henry A. Byrne
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need some advice Jalynne Beads 11 July 5th 03 11:20 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CraftBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.