Beginner's Questions

Greetings all;

I've always been interested in stained glass, but I'm finally getting to the
point of having funds and time to actually act on the interest...where is a
good place to start? Can anyone suggest good classes in the Seattle area?
And what tools do I need, and what should I look for in a good basic set,
that will last for a while?

Thank you greatly for your help,
Adam

Hi Adam


I've always been interested in stained glass, but I'm finally getting to the
point of having funds and time to actually act on the interest...where is a
good place to start? Can anyone suggest good classes in the Seattle area?
And what tools do I need, and what should I look for in a good basic set,
that will last for a while?

Can't help on the Seattle area - I'm in the UK - but a google search
might help.....?

I started Tiffany-style stained glass (the copper foil technique)
about 4 years ago - and went on an intensive 4-day course with one of
the glass shops.

Much depends on 'what you know already' I'd been interested in
electronics for many years - so soldering wasn't too much of a
challenge (although assembling stained glass is rather different from
assembling electronics equipment!)

Over here in the UK the glass suppliers will sell you a 'starter kit'
- typically containing

soldering iron
oil-filled glass cutter
grozing pliers
cutting square
solder
copper foil
flux
patina
tinning block
clear practice glass
burnishing tool
and an instruction book

I'd add a silicon carbide grinding stick and a hand-foiling tool to
this list.

As I intended to do this semi=professionally, I also invested in a
Morton system - which is a cutting surface with a selection of jigs &
gauges that make it easy to cut a number of pieces of glass to excatly
the same width or angle. This isn't essential for starters.

The other 'easy' projects are flat suncatchers - especially geometric
shapes like stars - again - all straight lines.

Practice on cheap clear glass (beg, steal or borrow offcuts from your
friendly window-glass or picture-framing company). 'Proper' glass can
be more difficult to cut, and more annoying when the cut runs the
wrong way!

Probably the simplest starter projects are boxes or terrariums
(planters) - as they tend to consist of straight line cuts. It's a
good idea to practice

Hope this helps - enjoy!

Adrian
Suffolk UK

If you can't find a good class, any class will do to give you some basic
techniques. Your interest and enthusiasm will do the rest. The only class I
took was part of the adult ed. program at the High School. Nothing special,
but good enough.

John Bassett
John and Christina

"A. L. H." wrote in message
news:UN_xb.150967$Dw6.616685@attbi_s02...
Greetings all;

I've always been interested in stained glass, but I'm finally getting to
the
point of having funds and time to actually act on the interest...where is
a
good place to start? Can anyone suggest good classes in the Seattle area?


Yellow pages..... GLASS, STAINED and LEADED. Your local SG retailer is
the best place to learn and get your stuff, and they really need your
busines. Good luck!

--
JK Sinrod NY
Sinrod Stained Glass
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

"jk" wrote in message
et...

"A. L. H." wrote in message
news:UN_xb.150967$Dw6.616685@attbi_s02...

[...]

Yellow pages..... GLASS, STAINED and LEADED. Your local SG retailer
is
the best place to learn and get your stuff, and they really need your
busines. Good luck!

JK Sinrod NY
Sinrod Stained Glass
www.sinrodstudios.com

They may "really need" your business, yes, but I think most here can
attest to the fact that there are "good" local retailers and
"bad"--indeed, horrid--local retailers. I live about 15 miles from a
decent-sized (pop. ~500K) city, and the dominant retailer there (there
are only two; one's quite small) gouges customers on everything from
class fees to materials/equipment/tools. I do much, much better buying
on the 'net, and better yet when I occasionally tag along with a friend
who can buy from a wholesaler who's about 50 miles away. As for
classes, you might check with some local art centers (the one in my
community offers a variety of art classes, including at least one SG
class each quarter) and/or community colleges. You *might* be slightly
better off taking an introductory course from a retailer, if only
because they likely have a variety of tools/equipment available for
students' use/testing. (This isn't true about the exploitative retailer
I mentioned; they, for example, only carry Toyo cutters.)

Speaking for the consumer,
JG

"JG" wrote in message
. ..
"jk" wrote in message
et...

"A. L. H." wrote in message
news:UN_xb.150967$Dw6.616685@attbi_s02...

[...]

Yellow pages..... GLASS, STAINED and LEADED. Your local SG retailer
is
the best place to learn and get your stuff, and they really need your
busines. Good luck!

JK Sinrod NY
Sinrod Stained Glass
www.sinrodstudios.com

They may "really need" your business, yes, but I think most here can
attest to the fact that there are "good" local retailers and
"bad"--indeed, horrid--local retailers. I live about 15 miles from a
decent-sized (pop. ~500K) city, and the dominant retailer there (there
are only two; one's quite small) gouges customers on everything from
class fees to materials/equipment/tools. I do much, much better buying
on the 'net, and better yet when I occasionally tag along with a friend
who can buy from a wholesaler who's about 50 miles away. As for
classes, you might check with some local art centers (the one in my
community offers a variety of art classes, including at least one SG
class each quarter) and/or community colleges. You *might* be slightly
better off taking an introductory course from a retailer, if only
because they likely have a variety of tools/equipment available for
students' use/testing. (This isn't true about the exploitative retailer
I mentioned; they, for example, only carry Toyo cutters.)

Speaking for the consumer,
JG



What you call gouging, they probably call making a living. You have every
right to buy where you want, but realize that the superstores put the mom
and pop shops out of business. Next the net stores will put them out. The
way it works is they sell at a small markup until all the smaller
competition is out of business, then simply raise their prices to where ever
they want. You have to decide if it's worth your while to save a few bucks,
and not have the convenience of a local place to shop ever again. It's a
tough choice I know. I sell at high prices compared to the net because I
need to, to pay my rent. But I'm there to teach, and demo every tool. You
can hold the glass up to the light and touch it at my place. Is that worth
paying extra? That's your choice. As far as wholesalers that sell to retail
customers, they are not long for any business.


--
JK Sinrod NY
Sinrod Stained Glass
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

I developed a relationship with my local glass seller. I buy wholesale now,
but I still buy from him as well and his prices are expensive compaired to
shopping on line.
Why?
-Every high quality sheet of glass is different.
-Ive gotton so much free advice. I would never be where I am today by
buying on line.
-The price of glass is really cheap when compaired to other things that go
into a stained glass panel. Price = 20% glass and 80% labor. If you change
the first to 10% by buying on line cheap glass, then your panel is worth 50
% of the price because it looks only half as good.
Panel #1: glass $150, Labor 20hrs, price $1200, profit $1050, satisfaction
High
Panel #2: glass $75, Labor 20hrs, price $700, prifit $625, satisifaction
medium.
- If we don't support mom and pop stores they go out of buiness, then the
wholesalers. Then we all take classes in Hobby Lobby or Las Vegas. Nothing
inbetween.

Liam

"Liam Striker" wrote in message
m...
I developed a relationship with my local glass seller. I buy wholesale
now,
but I still buy from him as well and his prices are expensive compaired to
shopping on line.
Why?
-Every high quality sheet of glass is different.
-Ive gotton so much free advice. I would never be where I am today by
buying on line.
-The price of glass is really cheap when compaired to other things that go
into a stained glass panel. Price = 20% glass and 80% labor. If you
change
the first to 10% by buying on line cheap glass, then your panel is worth
50
% of the price because it looks only half as good.
Panel #1: glass $150, Labor 20hrs, price $1200, profit $1050, satisfaction
High
Panel #2: glass $75, Labor 20hrs, price $700, prifit $625, satisifaction
medium.
- If we don't support mom and pop stores they go out of buiness, then the
wholesalers. Then we all take classes in Hobby Lobby or Las Vegas.
Nothing
inbetween.

Liam

Hi, Liam. While I agree with your comments about supporting local retailers
and the relative cost of glass as compared to the total cost of a panel,
you've completely lost me in your mathematical illustrations. Whose
satisfaction are you talking about, the customers, or the artists'?
Satisfaction with what? Appearance or profit?

I'm not sure that expensive vs. cheap glass makes a 50% difference in the
value of a panel. It might alter the value somewhat, but not 50%.
Frankly, I'd place a much higher value on the overall level of
craftsmanship (good soldering, properly fitted glass, mitered corners of
the frame, neat beading, etc,). It doesn't make much difference what the
glass costs if the craftsmanship or design sucks....

I'd be interested in your additional comments about pricing. In your #2
illustration, it appears that you cut the labor rate by $500 for the same
number of hours. Are you saying that you charge a higher labor rate when
using more expensive glass? I don't understand what you are telling us.

RIGHT ON - LIAM! And I've found glass that I
really needed locally that was NOT available
from the big wholesalers. And your point about
learning so much. Between the retailers and this NG, I am very thankful for
the wealth of knowledge
I have to answer my questions. And ---- I LURK
a lot too!

Hal

"Liam Striker" wrote in message
m...
I developed a relationship with my local glass seller. I buy wholesale
now,
but I still buy from him as well and his prices are expensive compaired to
shopping on line.
Why?
-Every high quality sheet of glass is different.
-Ive gotton so much free advice. I would never be where I am today by
buying on line.
-The price of glass is really cheap when compaired to other things that go
into a stained glass panel. Price = 20% glass and 80% labor. If you
change
the first to 10% by buying on line cheap glass, then your panel is worth
50
% of the price because it looks only half as good.
Panel #1: glass $150, Labor 20hrs, price $1200, profit $1050, satisfaction
High
Panel #2: glass $75, Labor 20hrs, price $700, prifit $625, satisifaction
medium.
- If we don't support mom and pop stores they go out of buiness, then the
wholesalers. Then we all take classes in Hobby Lobby or Las Vegas.
Nothing
inbetween.

Liam

Hi Adam:

There is a fantastic place not far from you and their website will give you
a list of their dealers. The website is www.spectrumglass.com and they are
located in Woodinville, Washington. I haven't been there yet, but am told
it's a great place to watch them actually MAKE glass. They make stain glass
and sell to glass dealers worldwide. I live in BC, not far from the US
border and go to Bellingham all the time, if you go to Spectrum Glass, let
me know if it's worth the drive. I may spend a weekend out there and go to
see for myself.

Jeannine

"A. L. H." wrote in message
news:UN_xb.150967$Dw6.616685@attbi_s02...
Greetings all;

I've always been interested in stained glass, but I'm finally getting to
the
point of having funds and time to actually act on the interest...where is
a
good place to start? Can anyone suggest good classes in the Seattle area?
And what tools do I need, and what should I look for in a good basic set,
that will last for a while?

Thank you greatly for your help,
Adam