Cleaning up copper after torch firing Enamel...

On Mar 1, 11:00*am, wrote:
On Feb 29, 10:53 pm, Jman wrote:





On Feb 29, 10:53 pm, wrote:

On Feb 29, 7:12 pm, Jman wrote:

On Feb 29, 7:24 pm, "JK" wrote:

"Jman" wrote in message
Any suggestions as to the 'above' would be helpful !

Cheers,

/FC

* *You've pretty much cussed out everyone here that's qualified to answer
you. I'm one that doesn't cuss, and I have to wonder why you're still here
looking for help when you're pretty much a resident in the kill files?

--
JK Sinrodwww.MyConeyIslandMemories.com

Only cussed out those who deserved it.... (you being one of them...)
I'm pretty sure that you and your little 'pals' aren't the only ones
with sound advice. *I do believe you 'over estimate' your standing on
this NG. *You and the rest of your 'pals' have no more right to be
here than anyone else. *We certainly don't have to 'earn your respect'
either. *Having said that, you should take your own advice and not
bother to respond either....
Hypocrisy at it's finest !

Looking forward to any replies.... *

Cheers,

/FC

Have you given any thought to how much you just being here ****es them
off?

http://www.vicartglass.com/products/....htm....quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah,

It gives me great pleasure.... *It really, really does *
...sigh...

You best be careful. *You're gunna make their heads explode.

Can I put another ad up?

Please!!!!!!!

I really really want to.

I promise it'll be a nice one. *Even got one with pictures for those
fellas that can't read.

Maybe they'd like a video on how to pull their wire?http://www.glasscampus..com/videos.htm- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That IS a FANTASTIC idea !

Very Informative and educational as well !

Jman wrote:
I'm torch firing enamel powders, frits, Diachroic, etc. on 24 oz
copper sheets.. I want to retain some of the natural copper color in
some areas of the pieces after being torched (no underglaze..), so I
need to remove the firescale.

Mostly, I've been using SPAREX #2 and a dremel (with an arsenal of
bits, discs, etc...) and the results have been pretty good but I have
noticed some 'dulling' after cleaning where the end of the glass meets
copper. I want to try and avoid this in future pieces and was
wondering if anyone has a better method of removing the firescale....
( I'm pretty sure the Dremel is causing the 'dulling')....

I read somewhere that "Penny Weight" cleaner is supposed to work
really well with enamel's, metals and is less caustic but I've never
tried it.... Is it any good ?

Also, should I stay away from the dremel for this application ?
Would doing it the 'old fashioned way' ( by hand..) be a better
option ? What would be the recommended sanding grit's / stones etc...
for finishing the enameled / fused piece ? The finest grit I
currently have is wet sanding paper @ 600 and 800 grit which I use to
give the copper some 'tooth' to hold the enamel previous to torching.

Any suggestions as to the 'above' would be helpful !

Cheers,

/FC

Have you tried using a dilute sulphuric acid pickle, that is what is
commonly used to clean the oxide from copper and leave the copper intact.

On Mar 1, 12:21*pm, David Billington
wrote:
Jman wrote:
I'm torch firing enamel powders, frits, Diachroic, etc. on 24 oz
copper sheets.. *I want to retain some of the natural copper color in
some areas of the pieces after being torched (no underglaze..), so I
need to remove the firescale.

Mostly, I've been using SPAREX #2 and a dremel (with an arsenal of
bits, discs, etc...) and the results have been pretty good but I have
noticed some 'dulling' after cleaning where the end of the glass meets
copper. *I want to try and avoid this in future pieces and was
wondering if anyone has a better method of removing the firescale....
( I'm *pretty sure the Dremel is causing the 'dulling')....

I read somewhere that "Penny Weight" cleaner is supposed to work
really well with enamel's, metals and is less caustic but I've never
tried it.... *Is it any good ?

Also, should I stay away from the dremel for this application ?
Would doing it the 'old fashioned way' ( by hand..) be a better
option ? *What would be the recommended sanding grit's / stones etc...
for finishing the enameled / fused piece ? * The finest grit I
currently have is wet sanding paper @ 600 and 800 grit which I use to
give the copper some 'tooth' to hold the enamel previous to torching.

Any suggestions as to the 'above' would be helpful !

Cheers,

/FC

Have you tried using a dilute sulphuric acid pickle, that is what is
commonly used to clean the oxide from copper and leave the copper intact.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hey there David,

Thanks for replying...

Yes, I tried the 'Sparex #2" and it works REALLY well, but I did
notice that it's a bit hard on the enamel. By that I mean some of the
pieces I pickled had enamel coming off (usually tiny pieces..) in bits
and I wasn't sure if it was the pickle, or my application of the
enamel in the first place. I'm kinda new at this....but I suppose
that's fairly obvious...

The other thing that I noticed about the 'Acid based pickles' is that
the copper turns this really 'Pink color', which I assume is normal.
The problem with this, is that I need to get that "Shiny Copper" look
back and I end up having to use the dremel either way..... Somewhat
frustrating really.

Do you know of a protective GUM or some kind of BINDER that might be
applied to the copper (where the enamel is not...) PRE-FIRING that
might shield the copper from some of the really nasty firescale ?

Cheers,

/FC

On Mar 1, 10:00*am, wrote:
On Feb 29, 10:53 pm, Jman wrote:





On Feb 29, 10:53 pm, wrote:

On Feb 29, 7:12 pm, Jman wrote:

On Feb 29, 7:24 pm, "JK" wrote:

"Jman" wrote in message
Any suggestions as to the 'above' would be helpful !

Cheers,

/FC

* *You've pretty much cussed out everyone here that's qualified to answer
you. I'm one that doesn't cuss, and I have to wonder why you're still here
looking for help when you're pretty much a resident in the kill files?

--
JK Sinrodwww.MyConeyIslandMemories.com

Only cussed out those who deserved it.... (you being one of them...)
I'm pretty sure that you and your little 'pals' aren't the only ones
with sound advice. *I do believe you 'over estimate' your standing on
this NG. *You and the rest of your 'pals' have no more right to be
here than anyone else. *We certainly don't have to 'earn your respect'
either. *Having said that, you should take your own advice and not
bother to respond either....
Hypocrisy at it's finest !

Looking forward to any replies.... *

Cheers,

/FC

Have you given any thought to how much you just being here ****es them
off?

http://www.vicartglass.com/products/....htm....quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah,

It gives me great pleasure.... *It really, really does *
...sigh...

You best be careful. *You're gunna make their heads explode.

Can I put another ad up?

Please!!!!!!!

I really really want to.

I promise it'll be a nice one. *Even got one with pictures for those
fellas that can't read.

Maybe they'd like a video on how to pull their wire?

My god man, did you figure all that out by yourself? You ARE
amazing!!!

On Mar 1, 12:36 pm, Chemo the Clown wrote:
On Mar 1, 10:00 am, wrote:



On Feb 29, 10:53 pm, Jman wrote:

On Feb 29, 10:53 pm, wrote:

On Feb 29, 7:12 pm, Jman wrote:

On Feb 29, 7:24 pm, "JK" wrote:

"Jman" wrote in message
Any suggestions as to the 'above' would be helpful !

Cheers,

/FC

You've pretty much cussed out everyone here that's qualified to answer
you. I'm one that doesn't cuss, and I have to wonder why you're still here
looking for help when you're pretty much a resident in the kill files?

--
JK Sinrodwww.MyConeyIslandMemories.com

Only cussed out those who deserved it.... (you being one of them...)
I'm pretty sure that you and your little 'pals' aren't the only ones
with sound advice. I do believe you 'over estimate' your standing on
this NG. You and the rest of your 'pals' have no more right to be
here than anyone else. We certainly don't have to 'earn your respect'
either. Having said that, you should take your own advice and not
bother to respond either....
Hypocrisy at it's finest !

Looking forward to any replies....

Cheers,

/FC

Have you given any thought to how much you just being here ****es them
off?

http://www.vicartglass.com/products/...gen.htm...text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah,

It gives me great pleasure.... It really, really does
...sigh...

You best be careful. You're gunna make their heads explode.

Can I put another ad up?

Please!!!!!!!

I really really want to.

I promise it'll be a nice one. Even got one with pictures for those
fellas that can't read.

Maybe they'd like a video on how to pull their wire?

My god man, did you figure all that out by yourself? You ARE
amazing!!!

Is your head getting ready to explode yet?
Maybe pulling your wire will release the pressure.

On Mar 1, 12:43*pm, wrote:
On Mar 1, 12:36 pm, Chemo the Clown wrote:





On Mar 1, 10:00 am, wrote:

On Feb 29, 10:53 pm, Jman wrote:

On Feb 29, 10:53 pm, wrote:

On Feb 29, 7:12 pm, Jman wrote:

On Feb 29, 7:24 pm, "JK" wrote:

"Jman" wrote in message
Any suggestions as to the 'above' would be helpful !

Cheers,

/FC

* *You've pretty much cussed out everyone here that's qualified to answer
you. I'm one that doesn't cuss, and I have to wonder why you're still here
looking for help when you're pretty much a resident in the kill files?

--
JK Sinrodwww.MyConeyIslandMemories.com

Only cussed out those who deserved it.... (you being one of them....)
I'm pretty sure that you and your little 'pals' aren't the only ones
with sound advice. *I do believe you 'over estimate' your standing on
this NG. *You and the rest of your 'pals' have no more right to be
here than anyone else. *We certainly don't have to 'earn your respect'
either. *Having said that, you should take your own advice and not
bother to respond either....
Hypocrisy at it's finest !

Looking forward to any replies.... *

Cheers,

/FC

Have you given any thought to how much you just being here ****es them
off?

http://www.vicartglass.com/products/...oxygen.htm...-

- Show quoted text -

Yeah,

It gives me great pleasure.... *It really, really does *
...sigh...

You best be careful. *You're gunna make their heads explode.

Can I put another ad up?

Please!!!!!!!

I really really want to.

I promise it'll be a nice one. *Even got one with pictures for those
fellas that can't read.

Maybe they'd like a video on how to pull their wire?

My god man, did you figure all that out by yourself? You ARE
amazing!!!

Is your head getting ready to explode yet?
Maybe pulling your wire will release the pressure.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

More fun pulling yer chain!

On Mar 1, 10:00*am, wrote:
On Feb 29, 10:53 pm, Jman wrote:





On Feb 29, 10:53 pm, wrote:

On Feb 29, 7:12 pm, Jman wrote:

On Feb 29, 7:24 pm, "JK" wrote:

"Jman" wrote in message
Any suggestions as to the 'above' would be helpful !

Cheers,

/FC

* *You've pretty much cussed out everyone here that's qualified to answer
you. I'm one that doesn't cuss, and I have to wonder why you're still here
looking for help when you're pretty much a resident in the kill files?

--
JK Sinrodwww.MyConeyIslandMemories.com

Only cussed out those who deserved it.... (you being one of them...)
I'm pretty sure that you and your little 'pals' aren't the only ones
with sound advice. *I do believe you 'over estimate' your standing on
this NG. *You and the rest of your 'pals' have no more right to be
here than anyone else. *We certainly don't have to 'earn your respect'
either. *Having said that, you should take your own advice and not
bother to respond either....
Hypocrisy at it's finest !

Looking forward to any replies.... *

Cheers,

/FC

Have you given any thought to how much you just being here ****es them
off?

http://www.vicartglass.com/products/....htm....quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah,

It gives me great pleasure.... *It really, really does *
...sigh...

You best be careful. *You're gunna make their heads explode.

Can I put another ad up?

Please!!!!!!!

I really really want to.

I promise it'll be a nice one. *Even got one with pictures for those
fellas that can't read.

Maybe they'd like a video on how to pull their wire?http://www.glasscampus..com/videos.htm- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

BTW...I know this may sound really strange to you...but when you order
kiln wash, it comes with directions. Can you believe it??

On Mar 1, 12:53 pm, Chemo the Clown wrote:
On Mar 1, 10:00 am, wrote:



On Feb 29, 10:53 pm, Jman wrote:

On Feb 29, 10:53 pm, wrote:

On Feb 29, 7:12 pm, Jman wrote:

On Feb 29, 7:24 pm, "JK" wrote:

"Jman" wrote in message
Any suggestions as to the 'above' would be helpful !

Cheers,

/FC

You've pretty much cussed out everyone here that's qualified to answer
you. I'm one that doesn't cuss, and I have to wonder why you're still here
looking for help when you're pretty much a resident in the kill files?

--
JK Sinrodwww.MyConeyIslandMemories.com

Only cussed out those who deserved it.... (you being one of them...)
I'm pretty sure that you and your little 'pals' aren't the only ones
with sound advice. I do believe you 'over estimate' your standing on
this NG. You and the rest of your 'pals' have no more right to be
here than anyone else. We certainly don't have to 'earn your respect'
either. Having said that, you should take your own advice and not
bother to respond either....
Hypocrisy at it's finest !

Looking forward to any replies....

Cheers,

/FC

Have you given any thought to how much you just being here ****es them
off?

http://www.vicartglass.com/products/...gen.htm...text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah,

It gives me great pleasure.... It really, really does
...sigh...

You best be careful. You're gunna make their heads explode.

Can I put another ad up?

Please!!!!!!!

I really really want to.

I promise it'll be a nice one. Even got one with pictures for those
fellas that can't read.

Maybe they'd like a video on how to pull their wire?http://www.glasscampus.com/videos.htm-Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

BTW...I know this may sound really strange to you...but when you order
kiln wash, it comes with directions. Can you believe it??

Like these?
http://www.glasscampus.com/tutorials...comparison.pdf

Jman wrote:
On Mar 1, 12:21 pm, David Billington
wrote:

Jman wrote:

I'm torch firing enamel powders, frits, Diachroic, etc. on 24 oz
copper sheets.. I want to retain some of the natural copper color in
some areas of the pieces after being torched (no underglaze..), so I
need to remove the firescale.

Mostly, I've been using SPAREX #2 and a dremel (with an arsenal of
bits, discs, etc...) and the results have been pretty good but I have
noticed some 'dulling' after cleaning where the end of the glass meets
copper. I want to try and avoid this in future pieces and was
wondering if anyone has a better method of removing the firescale....
( I'm pretty sure the Dremel is causing the 'dulling')....

I read somewhere that "Penny Weight" cleaner is supposed to work
really well with enamel's, metals and is less caustic but I've never
tried it.... Is it any good ?

Also, should I stay away from the dremel for this application ?
Would doing it the 'old fashioned way' ( by hand..) be a better
option ? What would be the recommended sanding grit's / stones etc...
for finishing the enameled / fused piece ? The finest grit I
currently have is wet sanding paper @ 600 and 800 grit which I use to
give the copper some 'tooth' to hold the enamel previous to torching.

Any suggestions as to the 'above' would be helpful !

Cheers,

/FC

Have you tried using a dilute sulphuric acid pickle, that is what is
commonly used to clean the oxide from copper and leave the copper intact.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Hey there David,

Thanks for replying...

Yes, I tried the 'Sparex #2" and it works REALLY well, but I did
notice that it's a bit hard on the enamel. By that I mean some of the
pieces I pickled had enamel coming off (usually tiny pieces..) in bits
and I wasn't sure if it was the pickle, or my application of the
enamel in the first place. I'm kinda new at this....but I suppose
that's fairly obvious...

I saw Sparex and was thinking of Cratex rubberised abrasive. Sparex is
apparently a sodium bisulphate based pickle so I have not used it.
Personally I have no problem with dilute sulphuric acid as it is a
fairly safe, I always use eye protection with any chemical, other
protection depending on the hazards of the chemical.

Not sure why the bits would be coming off, close inspection might reveal
a reason. I presume you are putting the enamelled piece in the pickle
cold. My main experience with pickling is after silver soldering brass
and copper parts which can be thrown in the pickle hot but that would
likely kill the enamel from the sudden cooling.

The other thing that I noticed about the 'Acid based pickles' is that
the copper turns this really 'Pink color', which I assume is normal.
The problem with this, is that I need to get that "Shiny Copper" look
back and I end up having to use the dremel either way..... Somewhat
frustrating really.

Normal in my experience also.

Do you know of a protective GUM or some kind of BINDER that might be
applied to the copper (where the enamel is not...) PRE-FIRING that
might shield the copper from some of the really nasty firescale ?

I can't think of anything at the moment but I don't do a lot of
enamelling. Batt wash sprung to mind but I know that won't stick to the
copper from experince slumping over batt wash covered copper formers,
can lead to some nice effects though. Might be worth giving graphite a
try, other than that some sort of kiln with a reducing or inert
atmosphere might be in order to prevent the oxidation on the exposed
copper. A reducing atmosphere might create problems with certain colours
though.
Cheers,

/FC

On Mar 1, 1:36*pm, Chemo the Clown wrote:
On Mar 1, 10:00*am, wrote:





On Feb 29, 10:53 pm, Jman wrote:

On Feb 29, 10:53 pm, wrote:

On Feb 29, 7:12 pm, Jman wrote:

On Feb 29, 7:24 pm, "JK" wrote:

"Jman" wrote in message
Any suggestions as to the 'above' would be helpful !

Cheers,

/FC

* *You've pretty much cussed out everyone here that's qualified to answer
you. I'm one that doesn't cuss, and I have to wonder why you're still here
looking for help when you're pretty much a resident in the kill files?

--
JK Sinrodwww.MyConeyIslandMemories.com

Only cussed out those who deserved it.... (you being one of them....)
I'm pretty sure that you and your little 'pals' aren't the only ones
with sound advice. *I do believe you 'over estimate' your standing on
this NG. *You and the rest of your 'pals' have no more right to be
here than anyone else. *We certainly don't have to 'earn your respect'
either. *Having said that, you should take your own advice and not
bother to respond either....
Hypocrisy at it's finest !

Looking forward to any replies.... *

Cheers,

/FC

Have you given any thought to how much you just being here ****es them
off?

http://www.vicartglass.com/products/...en.htm....text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah,

It gives me great pleasure.... *It really, really does *
...sigh...

You best be careful. *You're gunna make their heads explode.

Can I put another ad up?

Please!!!!!!!

I really really want to.

I promise it'll be a nice one. *Even got one with pictures for those
fellas that can't read.

Maybe they'd like a video on how to pull their wire?

My god man, did you figure all that out by yourself? You ARE
amazing!!!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Look everyone ! It's "PTA" !

Hey there PTA ! Nice to see you could make it back to add your .02
cents.

There's a lot of NEWB's on this NG (myself included..) and the advice
and direction that Mr. Brady has offered for FREE, both here and
especially at his Website, provides us new (and probably those with
experience as well...) people a great place to go and have many
questions answered. Heck, there's tutorials, downloadable
content, .PDF's and even a FREE BOOK ! You should really check it
out !!

So really, I guess what you are doing, is insulting the inexperienced
individuals here on the NG that want to learn and ask questions. Why
don't you try and redeem yourself ? Swallow whatever pride (or
whatever's in there..) you have and help with a question or two ?

Cheers PTA !

/FC