Market Opportunities for Stained Glass??

wrote in message
oups.com...
I disagree. And the complaining about imports gets old.

The guy who buys a $10 knock-off oil-painting out the back of a truck
was never going to buy a $2,500 original oil painting out of a gallery.
The same is true of glass.

If the artist adds unique value then the artist will not suffer at the
hands of cheap imports. If the artist doesn't add unique value -- and
most stained glass artists working from pattern books are little more
than cottage manufacturers -- then they are subject to being unseated
by more efficient/cheaper manufacturers.

If you make lamps then there will always be someone making lamps
cheaper. You better know why your lamps are unique and if it comes
down to a technical explanation of technique or process then you've
lost.

- Paul



I disagree with you. That guy buying a crappy assembly line oil painting
from a trunk ---would never be any craftsperson's customer. He is a slug. We
on the other hand --live on the USA economy and must support ourselves on
the USA economy. Therefore we must charge a reasonable price based upon
labor & materials, to make a living on our economy. People seem to forget
that the Chinese have HUGE assembly lines with basically "slave" labor
making things by the millions at a 1/20th or 1/30th of our "cost". That
would be fine if we LIVED on the Chinese economy--we don't. So people who
buy this crap are basically "traitors" and hopefully their livelihood will
be eliminated due to "cheap" imports.


my 2 cents
Kitty

"Kitty" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
I disagree. And the complaining about imports gets old.

The guy who buys a $10 knock-off oil-painting out the back of a truck
was never going to buy a $2,500 original oil painting out of a gallery.
The same is true of glass.

If the artist adds unique value then the artist will not suffer at the
hands of cheap imports. If the artist doesn't add unique value -- and
most stained glass artists working from pattern books are little more
than cottage manufacturers -- then they are subject to being unseated
by more efficient/cheaper manufacturers.

If you make lamps then there will always be someone making lamps
cheaper. You better know why your lamps are unique and if it comes
down to a technical explanation of technique or process then you've
lost.

- Paul



I disagree with you. That guy buying a crappy assembly line oil painting
from a trunk ---would never be any craftsperson's customer. He is a slug.
We
on the other hand --live on the USA economy and must support ourselves on
the USA economy. Therefore we must charge a reasonable price based upon
labor & materials, to make a living on our economy. People seem to forget
that the Chinese have HUGE assembly lines with basically "slave" labor
making things by the millions at a 1/20th or 1/30th of our "cost". That
would be fine if we LIVED on the Chinese economy--we don't. So people who
buy this crap are basically "traitors" and hopefully their livelihood will
be eliminated due to "cheap" imports.


my 2 cents
Kitty


While the efficencies of the Pacific Rim manufacturers are undeniable, it
seems to me that we ought to looking at "why" they managed to get a foot
hold and have usurped the USA in many areas of commerce.

And it basically goes back to two areas, in my opinion.

First was the Marshall Plan directly after WW2. For some reason, the
American government has forgotten the old adage that "to the victors belong
the spoils". We got attacked, won a long war, and then spent ourselves
deeper into debt rebuilding the losing side. And we continue that stupidity
to this very day.

With an attitude instilled by unions, and winked at by corrupt city and
state governments, the American worker has done less and less work for more
and more money until he basically does virtually nothing for what amounts to
a small weekly fortune, and then expects the company and the government to
maintain that standard of living until he dies. The work ethic in this
country is essentially gone, we have dumbed down our educational systems,
pandering to the lowest common denominator.

We have a Congress that is more worried about whether some overpaid jock
takes steroids than they are about catching Islamics who are trying to kill
us. We have NCAA officials banning team names and symbols from post season
competition rather than worrying about whether the athlete graduates. We
have a government that is more worried about whether some damned owl's
nesting area is disturbed than they are about the thousands of people who
lost their jobs in the lumber industry.

We have a media that worries more about some POW raghead's "rights" than
they celebrate the 25 million Iraqis that are now free to form a democratic
government.

Basically, our priorities are all upside down. The Asian economies are
outworking us, and outhinking us.

"Moonraker" wrote in message
.. .

"Kitty" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
I disagree. And the complaining about imports gets old.

The guy who buys a $10 knock-off oil-painting out the back of a truck
was never going to buy a $2,500 original oil painting out of a gallery.
The same is true of glass.

If the artist adds unique value then the artist will not suffer at the
hands of cheap imports. If the artist doesn't add unique value -- and
most stained glass artists working from pattern books are little more
than cottage manufacturers -- then they are subject to being unseated
by more efficient/cheaper manufacturers.

If you make lamps then there will always be someone making lamps
cheaper. You better know why your lamps are unique and if it comes
down to a technical explanation of technique or process then you've
lost.

- Paul



I disagree with you. That guy buying a crappy assembly line oil painting
from a trunk ---would never be any craftsperson's customer. He is a slug.
We
on the other hand --live on the USA economy and must support ourselves on
the USA economy. Therefore we must charge a reasonable price based upon
labor & materials, to make a living on our economy. People seem to forget
that the Chinese have HUGE assembly lines with basically "slave" labor
making things by the millions at a 1/20th or 1/30th of our "cost". That
would be fine if we LIVED on the Chinese economy--we don't. So people who
buy this crap are basically "traitors" and hopefully their livelihood
will
be eliminated due to "cheap" imports.


my 2 cents
Kitty


While the efficencies of the Pacific Rim manufacturers are undeniable, it
seems to me that we ought to looking at "why" they managed to get a foot
hold and have usurped the USA in many areas of commerce.

And it basically goes back to two areas, in my opinion.

First was the Marshall Plan directly after WW2. For some reason, the
American government has forgotten the old adage that "to the victors
belong
the spoils". We got attacked, won a long war, and then spent ourselves
deeper into debt rebuilding the losing side. And we continue that
stupidity
to this very day.

With an attitude instilled by unions, and winked at by corrupt city and
state governments, the American worker has done less and less work for
more
and more money until he basically does virtually nothing for what amounts
to
a small weekly fortune, and then expects the company and the government to
maintain that standard of living until he dies. The work ethic in this
country is essentially gone, we have dumbed down our educational systems,
pandering to the lowest common denominator.

We have a Congress that is more worried about whether some overpaid jock
takes steroids than they are about catching Islamics who are trying to
kill
us. We have NCAA officials banning team names and symbols from post
season
competition rather than worrying about whether the athlete graduates. We
have a government that is more worried about whether some damned owl's
nesting area is disturbed than they are about the thousands of people who
lost their jobs in the lumber industry.

We have a media that worries more about some POW raghead's "rights" than
they celebrate the 25 million Iraqis that are now free to form a
democratic
government.

Basically, our priorities are all upside down. The Asian economies are
outworking us, and outhinking us.




I agree with you in every way. But how can we compete???? we would have to
drop our economy down to the level of China....average pay of $1.00 per
day!!! fine with me as long as cost of living does the same!

Kitty

Basically, our priorities are all upside down. The Asian economies are
outworking us, and outhinking us.




I agree with you in every way. But how can we compete????

We don't compete with them on their playing field, ie the cheap stuff.
Create better quality goods, in both design and technique, and refuse to
repair the imports. It was junk when it was made, and does not deserve my
attention. What do I lose by doing that? a cheeseburger? I should lose
more of those... A potential customer, usually not after I explain why I
won't fix it. They can buy another if they like that costs less than my
repair bill


we would have to
drop our economy down to the level of China....average pay of $1.00 per
day!!! fine with me as long as cost of living does the same!

and that is not going to happen, the only thing any of us, individually ,
can do is control our own environment, our own little "community of
creation" of the things we do. If the public consumer doesn't like or can't
afford what we do, we need to change us, or find a different consumer.
Sometimes we need to "go there" and "do this", to make things better for
"us".

Actually, the Chinese don't use "slave" labor for this type of work.
Slaves or prisoners ar ethe ones that build roads and things like that.
Employees of large companies in China actually get paid a decent living
wage...for thier economy. You also have to remember that the Chinese
have been around for a long long time and thier way of thinking and
thier morals are much different than ours and that doesn't mean they
are wrong.

Andy

A view from the other side of the Atlantic:
Your government actively encouraged the export of technology
(glass-making) to China and sanctioned payment via contra-trade, ie
exporting of glass back to the US. The development of trade in
finished glass goods (much of it now very good in quality, if not in
originality) is a natural extension of the process as US seeks to get
close to China and its' markets. The low prices are not the product of
slave labour, but rather of the need of China for hard currency. The
makers get paid wages at the going rate in renminbi while China earns
valuable $$$

As far as survival in a changing market goes, the watchword as ever is
"Adapt or die".

Therefore we must charge a reasonable price
based upon labor & materials, to make a living
on our economy.

If all you are looking to do is mark up the price on labor and
materials then you are correct.

An artist/crafts-person better bring more to the table than that.
Otherwise you are just a one person factory.

That was exactly my point.

There will always be competition. People who whine about it die
hungry, feeling they are the victim of some great injustice.

People who find ways to add unique value and match it with customers
who recognize it succeed.

- Paul

(Quote) A view from the other side of the Atlantic:
Your government actively encouraged the export of technology
(glass-making) to China and sanctioned payment via contra-trade, ie
exporting of glass back to the US. (Unquote)

While that may be so, the majority of small businesses in the US did
not support our government in this. Large, overbearing, dominant
corporations shoveled money into the pockets of congressman to get all
this passed.

Andy

"Kitty" wrote in message
...
I agree with you in every way. But how can we compete???? we would have
to
drop our economy down to the level of China....average pay of $1.00 per
day!!! fine with me as long as cost of living does the same!

Kitty


Hourly rates and costs of living are all relevant.

The house I grew up in was purchased by my parents in the early 1940's. I
was thinking yesterday as I made a bank deposit for a couple days of worth
of checks for my services, the deposit I made was more money than they paid
for that house. I just bought my wife a new Jeep Cherokee that cost more
money than my first house did. I frequently make more money in a single
morning than I made per month in my first job right out of college.

I'm reminded of the situation years ago when the first Jap cars hit our
shores. They were ugly, not particularly powerful, but they were cheap.
Price got them a foot hold, and as the US consumer began to flock to the
lower price cars, Detroit had to match designs, and prices to some extent.

Funny thing, though. The Jap cars now are mostly better products than our
domestics, and sell for the same money. It's curious how "made in Japan"
used to be indicitive of junk. Now, some of the best products in the world
come from there.

Now, the junk manufacturers are some Chinese and definitely all Korean.

wrote in message
oups.com...
I disagree. And the complaining about imports gets old.

The guy who buys a $10 knock-off oil-painting out the back of a truck
was never going to buy a $2,500 original oil painting out of a gallery.
The same is true of glass.

If the artist adds unique value then the artist will not suffer at the
hands of cheap imports. If the artist doesn't add unique value -- and
most stained glass artists working from pattern books are little more
than cottage manufacturers -- then they are subject to being unseated
by more efficient/cheaper manufacturers.

If you make lamps then there will always be someone making lamps
cheaper. You better know why your lamps are unique and if it comes
down to a technical explanation of technique or process then you've
lost.

- Paul


Talking about extremes almost always works in an argument. Unfortunately
there's alot of customers that fall into the gray area. When the difference
is $1000 with us for great quality or $300 with them for OK quality. If we
work on a 50%-70% markup, and the gray area we're losing is 10-20% we're in
alot of trouble. Bottom line is that we'll never make up those sales again.
Survival of the fittest, quickest to adapt, that's who'll be left in 10
years.

--
JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories