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#1
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The Dying SG Retail Store
My sense, after talking with people around the country, is that the
stained glass retail store is quickly becoming extinct. A combination of things is to blame. Cheap lamp and panel imports from China, Korea, and Mexico was the start. Then it was mailorder & wholesalers selling to anyone. Now finally it's the netsellers taking the supply business away. This has happened to many mom & pop type industries over the last few years as evidenced by all those empty strip mall stores we all see. We used to have 5 lumber yards, all replaced by Home Depot. Many of these shops have converted to doing custom work & repair only now. The overhead is the same, so times are tough. Nothing else to say, just a sad commentary on what's going on. -- JK Sinrod Sinrod Stained Glass Studios www.sinrodstudios.com Coney Island Memories www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories |
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#2
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"Bart V" wrote in message ... Not to mention the hazardous material thing. It's a trend alright but that can be good and bad. Bad because it'll be harder to find jobs, good because it'll be harder for clients as well to find people who can do repairs and/or custom work. There will always be a market for specialized services and the people who can provide that service. There's always people on the look out for nice things made by real artists that don't look like item C on page 137 of XYZ's catalogue. Too bad for the many, including myself, who can't find their way into that niche. Too bad for the many who have been, but now find themselves on the verge of being excluded from that niche. I guess the trick is in trying to decide if you can afford to wheather the storm. From some show on tv, "the avalange has started, it's too late for the pebbles to protest..." Here's hoping all you fine folks will stay afloat, Bart. - Check my most up to date email address at: www.haruteq.com/contact.htm awesome banjo bridges, tabs, stained glass: www.haruteq.com **may your moments of need be met by moments of compassion** I refuse to buy anything made in China...whether it be junk stained glass items or glass itself. Armstrong glass has a warehouse near where I live for great prices...however, when I went there all I saw was boxes with the name China on the sides.....screw that.....I wont buy Armstrong glass.........for that reason. They shut down USA factory and now have all their glass built in China. Kitty |
#3
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"Kitty" wrote in message ... I refuse to buy anything made in China...whether it be junk stained glass items or glass itself. Armstrong glass has a warehouse near where I live for great prices...however, when I went there all I saw was boxes with the name China on the sides.....screw that.....I wont buy Armstrong glass.........for that reason. They shut down USA factory and now have all their glass built in China. Kitty Well, you are right that Armstrong has their glass made in China. What you didn't say was that the State of Georgia and Georgia Natural Gas basically ran Armstrong out of business with their restrictive regulations and high gas rates. Armstrong had been making glass in the Chatahoochee Industrial area of Atlanta for years. The taxes and environmental nonsense later forced Armstrong to move to Jasper, GA and make glass there for a while. The lack of a US energy policy and the GA legislature's de-regulation of natural gas rates allowed Georgia Natural Gas to basically gouge Armstrong to the point of submission. I know the president of Armstrong personally, and he and I have had this discussion several times. It wasn't by choice that Armstrong had to go off shore to get the products made, it was a matter of survival. The glass that Armstrong is bringing in now is actually being made on some of the same equipment that they had in Jasper, GA. The lehr and one of the furnaces were moved to China. All the formulae are the same as what Armstrong had been using and one of Armstrong's long-time employees is now full-time (almost) in China. He is there to supervise and do the quality control. |
#4
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One of my local SG retailers has really crappy customer service and I
won't be sorry to see them go... if they ever do, as they seem to be hanging in there pretty well. The other one is pretty good to people, and seems to be thriving. I hope so anyway, they have to stick around and keep the rude guys on their toes! Glassman wrote: My sense, after talking with people around the country, is that the stained glass retail store is quickly becoming extinct. A combination of things is to blame. Cheap lamp and panel imports from China, Korea, and Mexico was the start. Then it was mailorder & wholesalers selling to anyone. Now finally it's the netsellers taking the supply business away. This has happened to many mom & pop type industries over the last few years as evidenced by all those empty strip mall stores we all see. We used to have 5 lumber yards, all replaced by Home Depot. Many of these shops have converted to doing custom work & repair only now. The overhead is the same, so times are tough. Nothing else to say, just a sad commentary on what's going on. -- -Kalera http://www.beadwife.com |
#6
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"Matthew Lybanon" wrote in message ... My wife is a stained glass artist. Yes, she orders some supplies online, and even picks up some at Hobby Lobby. But she also patronizes retail stained glass stores. Not the one in the large city where we live, because the people who run it are unpleasant and they charge ridiculously high prices (high compared both to stores where we used to live, and to the stores mentioned in the next paragraph). She travels about 100 miles to a considerably smaller town, where she patronizes two retail stained glass stores--one of them less than a year old. Stores that offer merchandise at fair prices and treat their customers well can thrive even in today's business climate. This is the same point the previous poster made. in article , Kalera Stratton at wrote on 6/11/05 11:31 PM: One of my local SG retailers has really crappy customer service and I won't be sorry to see them go... if they ever do, as they seem to be hanging in there pretty well. The other one is pretty good to people, and seems to be thriving. I hope so anyway, they have to stick around and keep the rude guys on their toes! Glassman wrote: My sense, after talking with people around the country, is that the stained glass retail store is quickly becoming extinct. A combination of things is to blame. Cheap lamp and panel imports from China, Korea, and Mexico was the start. Then it was mailorder & wholesalers selling to anyone. Now finally it's the netsellers taking the supply business away. This has happened to many mom & pop type industries over the last few years as evidenced by all those empty strip mall stores we all see. We used to have 5 lumber yards, all replaced by Home Depot. Many of these shops have converted to doing custom work & repair only now. The overhead is the same, so times are tough. Nothing else to say, just a sad commentary on what's going on. I have seen the glass at Hobby Lobby and it is substandard. It is also from China. I refuse to use it for 2 reasons: 1]--its from China 2] so many defects makes cutting miserable and wasteful. I rather pay higher prices for good ole Spectrum or other high quality glass. Business can stay competitive without going to China. Again, that's why I refuse to use Armstrong glass even if its GIVEN to me! If you think its ok---check it out. You will find all kinds of defective and contaminated glass. Be careful with EBay as well. I wont buy anything that's been made in China....but you have to ask. There are many great sellers on EBay who build their own stained glass and are in USA. Others import the junk from overseas [China] and sell it very cheap. This hurts Americans. Why ? Because we need to charge what it costs to build SG here in USA as we LIVE on the USA economy--not the Chinese economy....but consumers expect my projects to be as cheap as Chinas stuff...I say NO---I live here and pay using the USA std,,,,,,I do not live on China's economy---sometimes they understand--sometimes they don't. I don't care. Kitty |
#7
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"Glassman" wrote in message ... My sense, after talking with people around the country, is that the stained glass retail store is quickly becoming extinct. A combination of things is to blame. Cheap lamp and panel imports from China, Korea, and Mexico was the start. Then it was mailorder & wholesalers selling to anyone. Now finally it's the netsellers taking the supply business away. This has happened to many mom & pop type industries over the last few years as evidenced by all those empty strip mall stores we all see. We used to have 5 lumber yards, all replaced by Home Depot. Many of these shops have converted to doing custom work & repair only now. The overhead is the same, so times are tough. Nothing else to say, just a sad commentary on what's going on. If this is seen a second time, please let me know, I posted it once before, but don't think it made it for some reason... I believe , and it is my opinion that...... "stained glass" experiencing a downward trend in popularity amongst crafters, the cycle is believed to be 20 year stretches, from folks I have talked to, it may be another 5-7 years before it gets seriously popular again. It reached its height about 5 years ago, when people had to "invent" (stepping stones, etc, methods other than traditional) other mediums for the glass world, it was the handwriting that things were in a downward spiral. The interest by the public was subsiding, just a matter of who can hang on until it goes back up. Now the retailers must get creative.....but the people who view themselves and what they do as "art" will always need a supplier, their interest is not passing.... |
#8
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It goes deeper than the Chinese glass issue. Which came first, the
wholesaler selling to retail customers, or the retailer not ordering enough from the wholesaler forcing them to find other income? The retailer has been bled the last decade from both, imports and the wholesalers double cross. Java's 20 year cycle may be part of the problem, but there are no shortage of lamps being sold on QVC, and doors with SG panels in them at Home Depot. None of us can compete with this stuff. The retailer has reached the end of scuffling for ideas to keep the store open. Lamps, panels, boxes, kaleidoscopes, stepping stones, classes, supplies, jewelry.... what else is there to do? Remember your local hardware store? Stationery store? Grocery? Clothing store? Can anyone forsee them coming back when they have been replaced by super store chains? Guys like Java and me will be in business until they carry our bodies out the door. RIP stained glass retail stores.... -- JK Sinrod Sinrod Stained Glass Studios www.sinrodstudios.com Coney Island Memories www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories |
#9
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"Glassman" wrote in message ... It goes deeper than the Chinese glass issue. Which came first, the wholesaler selling to retail customers, or the retailer not ordering enough from the wholesaler forcing them to find other income? The retailer has been bled the last decade from both, imports and the wholesalers double cross. Java's 20 year cycle may be part of the problem, but there are no shortage of lamps being sold on QVC, and doors with SG panels in them at Home Depot. None of us can compete with this stuff. The retailer has reached the end of scuffling for ideas to keep the store open. Lamps, panels, boxes, kaleidoscopes, stepping stones, classes, supplies, jewelry.... what else is there to do? Remember your local hardware store? Stationery store? Grocery? Clothing store? Can anyone forsee them coming back when they have been replaced by super store chains? Guys like Java and me will be in business until they carry our bodies out the door. RIP stained glass retail stores.... This is a little long winded, if I upset someone, better skip on... While I agree with the general direction of the above mentioned statement, there will have to be some changes in how we do things also. I have been doing this too long to do anything else, I know how to do other things but my body says I shouldn't do them, so there needs to be another solution. That is what I am weighing myself. I have a "storefront studio", business has been OK, but it has been better, in terms of profit and volume. I was one of those guys that wanted to be a "purist" and "do" the work, not manage people who do the work for less than I would do it. So "way back when" I should have gotten larger and put a good crew together and get out there and do alot of churches, spread out and hit the road. (there are only so many churches in my area) I didn't do that, I did the custom entries, (still do that on occasion), restored original Tiffany windows, lamps and desk pieces for a collector/dealer and made a living doing it. I enjoyed it all. I learned alot of different things but what I didn't do was sock money away for NOW. I foresee, and predict, that the small studio business will become like the carpenter or brick mason. These guys go out and work on the job, or have a small workshop in their home to "pre-build", or construct, then go out on the job and install. The economy and the cheap imported items, whatever they may be, will drive the small storefront studio into the "basement" creating more "basement bandits" that can cut prices because they have no or little overhead and they want the work so they can pay their bills. The fine craftsman with the wealth of knowledge, will not be able to afford all the expenses of a storefront. Rent, taxes, utilities,taxes, insurance, advertising, taxes, and labor, with taxes, insurance, and all that is involved. and yes I mention taxes alot. So the problem doesn't just involve the retailer, it is a just like a mudslide, the retailer is just on the edge at the moment, some will go over, some will not, same with the small studio. I just figure the more I know how to do, the better off I am, somebody will need to have something done, and I will know how to do it, and the last few years have proved that point to me. It has not been easy, in fact far from it, but I haven't gone over the edge, and don't intend to. |
#10
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As a wholesale supplier to working artisans as well as small retailers,
I think the only retailers that will become extinct are those unwilling to adapt to market changes. The demand for stained glass supplies has diminshed dramatically but has been compensated for with increased demand for kilnforming supplies. At this point, about 75% of sales are for kilnforming with only 25% for conventional stained glass. Retailers that have recognized the change and have set up to teach fusing/slumping and sell supplies for kilnforming are doing fine. Many are expanding rapidly and having difficulty meeting the demand for classes. Every class produces new customers and on average, one out of every 10 students will buy a kiln. Also, hobbyists fusing & slumping use considerably more glass than those doing stained glass. It might take someone a while to use up $100 worth of glass making a lamp or window, but a fuser can use that up in a few days. Dennis Brady http://www.victorianartglass.biz |
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