The Dying SG Retail Store

My sense, after talking with people around the country, is that the
stained glass retail store is quickly becoming extinct. A combination of
things is to blame. Cheap lamp and panel imports from China, Korea, and
Mexico was the start. Then it was mailorder & wholesalers selling to anyone.
Now finally it's the netsellers taking the supply business away. This has
happened to many mom & pop type industries over the last few years as
evidenced by all those empty strip mall stores we all see. We used to have 5
lumber yards, all replaced by Home Depot.
Many of these shops have converted to doing custom work & repair only
now. The overhead is the same, so times are tough. Nothing else to say, just
a sad commentary on what's going on.

--
JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

"Bart V" wrote in message
...
Not to mention the hazardous material thing. It's a trend alright but
that can be good and bad. Bad because it'll be harder to find jobs,
good because it'll be harder for clients as well to find people who
can do repairs and/or custom work. There will always be a market for
specialized services and the people who can provide that service.
There's always people on the look out for nice things made by real
artists that don't look like item C on page 137 of XYZ's catalogue.
Too bad for the many, including myself, who can't find their way into
that niche. Too bad for the many who have been, but now find
themselves on the verge of being excluded from that niche.
I guess the trick is in trying to decide if you can afford to wheather
the storm. From some show on tv, "the avalange has started, it's too
late for the pebbles to protest..."
Here's hoping all you fine folks will stay afloat,
Bart.
-
Check my most up to date email address at:
www.haruteq.com/contact.htm
awesome banjo bridges, tabs, stained glass:
www.haruteq.com

**may your moments of need be met by moments of compassion**



I refuse to buy anything made in China...whether it be junk stained glass
items or glass itself. Armstrong glass has a warehouse near where I live for
great prices...however, when I went there all I saw was boxes with the name
China on the sides.....screw that.....I wont buy Armstrong glass.........for
that reason. They shut down USA factory and now have all their glass built
in China.


Kitty

"Kitty" wrote in message
...


I refuse to buy anything made in China...whether it be junk stained glass
items or glass itself. Armstrong glass has a warehouse near where I live
for
great prices...however, when I went there all I saw was boxes with the
name
China on the sides.....screw that.....I wont buy Armstrong
glass.........for
that reason. They shut down USA factory and now have all their glass built
in China.


Kitty

Well, you are right that Armstrong has their glass made in China. What you
didn't say was that the State of Georgia and Georgia Natural Gas basically
ran Armstrong out of business with their restrictive regulations and high
gas rates. Armstrong had been making glass in the Chatahoochee Industrial
area of Atlanta for years. The taxes and environmental nonsense later
forced Armstrong to move to Jasper, GA and make glass there for a while.
The lack of a US energy policy and the GA legislature's de-regulation of
natural gas rates allowed Georgia Natural Gas to basically gouge Armstrong
to the point of submission. I know the president of Armstrong personally,
and he and I have had this discussion several times. It wasn't by choice
that Armstrong had to go off shore to get the products made, it was a
matter of survival.

The glass that Armstrong is bringing in now is actually being made on some
of the same equipment that they had in Jasper, GA. The lehr and one of the
furnaces were moved to China. All the formulae are the same as what
Armstrong had been using and one of Armstrong's long-time employees is now
full-time (almost) in China. He is there to supervise and do the quality
control.

One of my local SG retailers has really crappy customer service and I
won't be sorry to see them go... if they ever do, as they seem to be
hanging in there pretty well. The other one is pretty good to people,
and seems to be thriving. I hope so anyway, they have to stick around
and keep the rude guys on their toes!

Glassman wrote:
My sense, after talking with people around the country, is that the
stained glass retail store is quickly becoming extinct. A combination of
things is to blame. Cheap lamp and panel imports from China, Korea, and
Mexico was the start. Then it was mailorder & wholesalers selling to anyone.
Now finally it's the netsellers taking the supply business away. This has
happened to many mom & pop type industries over the last few years as
evidenced by all those empty strip mall stores we all see. We used to have 5
lumber yards, all replaced by Home Depot.
Many of these shops have converted to doing custom work & repair only
now. The overhead is the same, so times are tough. Nothing else to say, just
a sad commentary on what's going on.


--
-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com

My wife is a stained glass artist. Yes, she orders some supplies online,
and even picks up some at Hobby Lobby. But she also patronizes retail
stained glass stores. Not the one in the large city where we live, because
the people who run it are unpleasant and they charge ridiculously high
prices (high compared both to stores where we used to live, and to the
stores mentioned in the next paragraph).

She travels about 100 miles to a considerably smaller town, where she
patronizes two retail stained glass stores--one of them less than a year
old. Stores that offer merchandise at fair prices and treat their customers
well can thrive even in today's business climate. This is the same point
the previous poster made.


in article , Kalera Stratton at
wrote on 6/11/05 11:31 PM:

One of my local SG retailers has really crappy customer service and I
won't be sorry to see them go... if they ever do, as they seem to be
hanging in there pretty well. The other one is pretty good to people,
and seems to be thriving. I hope so anyway, they have to stick around
and keep the rude guys on their toes!

Glassman wrote:
My sense, after talking with people around the country, is that the
stained glass retail store is quickly becoming extinct. A combination of
things is to blame. Cheap lamp and panel imports from China, Korea, and
Mexico was the start. Then it was mailorder & wholesalers selling to anyone.
Now finally it's the netsellers taking the supply business away. This has
happened to many mom & pop type industries over the last few years as
evidenced by all those empty strip mall stores we all see. We used to have 5
lumber yards, all replaced by Home Depot.
Many of these shops have converted to doing custom work & repair only
now. The overhead is the same, so times are tough. Nothing else to say, just
a sad commentary on what's going on.

"Matthew Lybanon" wrote in message
...
My wife is a stained glass artist. Yes, she orders some supplies online,
and even picks up some at Hobby Lobby. But she also patronizes retail
stained glass stores. Not the one in the large city where we live,
because
the people who run it are unpleasant and they charge ridiculously high
prices (high compared both to stores where we used to live, and to the
stores mentioned in the next paragraph).

She travels about 100 miles to a considerably smaller town, where she
patronizes two retail stained glass stores--one of them less than a year
old. Stores that offer merchandise at fair prices and treat their
customers
well can thrive even in today's business climate. This is the same point
the previous poster made.


in article , Kalera Stratton at
wrote on 6/11/05 11:31 PM:

One of my local SG retailers has really crappy customer service and I
won't be sorry to see them go... if they ever do, as they seem to be
hanging in there pretty well. The other one is pretty good to people,
and seems to be thriving. I hope so anyway, they have to stick around
and keep the rude guys on their toes!

Glassman wrote:
My sense, after talking with people around the country, is that the
stained glass retail store is quickly becoming extinct. A combination
of
things is to blame. Cheap lamp and panel imports from China, Korea, and
Mexico was the start. Then it was mailorder & wholesalers selling to
anyone.
Now finally it's the netsellers taking the supply business away. This
has
happened to many mom & pop type industries over the last few years as
evidenced by all those empty strip mall stores we all see. We used to
have 5
lumber yards, all replaced by Home Depot.
Many of these shops have converted to doing custom work & repair only
now. The overhead is the same, so times are tough. Nothing else to say,
just
a sad commentary on what's going on.



I have seen the glass at Hobby Lobby and it is substandard. It is also from
China. I refuse to use it for 2 reasons: 1]--its from China 2] so many
defects makes cutting miserable and wasteful. I rather pay higher prices for
good ole Spectrum or other high quality glass. Business can stay
competitive without going to China. Again, that's why I refuse to use
Armstrong glass even if its GIVEN to me! If you think its ok---check it out.
You will find all kinds of defective and contaminated glass. Be careful with
EBay as well. I wont buy anything that's been made in China....but you have
to ask. There are many great sellers on EBay who build their own stained
glass and are in USA. Others import the junk from overseas [China] and sell
it very cheap. This hurts Americans. Why ? Because we need to charge what it
costs to build SG here in USA as we LIVE on the USA economy--not the Chinese
economy....but consumers expect my projects to be as cheap as Chinas
stuff...I say NO---I live here and pay using the USA std,,,,,,I do not live
on China's economy---sometimes they understand--sometimes they don't. I
don't care.

Kitty

"Glassman" wrote in message
...
My sense, after talking with people around the country, is that the
stained glass retail store is quickly becoming extinct. A combination of
things is to blame. Cheap lamp and panel imports from China, Korea, and
Mexico was the start. Then it was mailorder & wholesalers selling to
anyone.
Now finally it's the netsellers taking the supply business away. This has
happened to many mom & pop type industries over the last few years as
evidenced by all those empty strip mall stores we all see. We used to have
5
lumber yards, all replaced by Home Depot.
Many of these shops have converted to doing custom work & repair only
now. The overhead is the same, so times are tough. Nothing else to say,
just
a sad commentary on what's going on.

If this is seen a second time, please let me know, I posted it once before,
but don't think it made it for some reason...


I believe , and it is my opinion that......

"stained glass" experiencing a downward trend in popularity amongst
crafters, the
cycle is believed to be 20 year stretches, from folks I have talked to, it
may be another 5-7 years before it gets seriously popular again.
It reached its height about 5 years ago, when people had to "invent"
(stepping stones, etc, methods other than traditional) other mediums for
the glass world, it was the handwriting that things were in a downward
spiral. The interest by the public was subsiding, just a matter of who can
hang on until it goes back up. Now the retailers must get creative.....but
the people who view themselves and what they do as "art" will always need a
supplier, their interest is not passing....

It goes deeper than the Chinese glass issue. Which came first, the
wholesaler selling to retail customers, or the retailer not ordering enough
from the wholesaler forcing them to find other income? The retailer has been
bled the last decade from both, imports and the wholesalers double cross.
Java's 20 year cycle may be part of the problem, but there are no shortage
of lamps being sold on QVC, and doors with SG panels in them at Home Depot.
None of us can compete with this stuff. The retailer has reached the end of
scuffling for ideas to keep the store open. Lamps, panels, boxes,
kaleidoscopes, stepping stones, classes, supplies, jewelry.... what else is
there to do? Remember your local hardware store? Stationery store? Grocery?
Clothing store? Can anyone forsee them coming back when they have been
replaced by super store chains? Guys like Java and me will be in business
until they carry our bodies out the door. RIP stained glass retail
stores....

--
JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

"Glassman" wrote in message
...
It goes deeper than the Chinese glass issue. Which came first, the
wholesaler selling to retail customers, or the retailer not ordering
enough
from the wholesaler forcing them to find other income? The retailer has
been
bled the last decade from both, imports and the wholesalers double cross.
Java's 20 year cycle may be part of the problem, but there are no shortage
of lamps being sold on QVC, and doors with SG panels in them at Home
Depot.
None of us can compete with this stuff. The retailer has reached the end
of
scuffling for ideas to keep the store open. Lamps, panels, boxes,
kaleidoscopes, stepping stones, classes, supplies, jewelry.... what else
is
there to do? Remember your local hardware store? Stationery store?
Grocery?
Clothing store? Can anyone forsee them coming back when they have been
replaced by super store chains? Guys like Java and me will be in business
until they carry our bodies out the door. RIP stained glass retail
stores....


This is a little long winded, if I upset someone, better skip on...

While I agree with the general direction of the above mentioned statement,
there will have to be some changes in how we do things also.

I have been doing this too long to do anything else, I know how to do other
things but my body says I shouldn't do them, so there needs to be another
solution. That is what I am weighing myself.

I have a "storefront studio", business has been OK, but it has been better,
in terms of profit and volume. I was one of those guys that wanted to be a
"purist" and "do" the work, not manage people who do the work for less than
I would do it. So "way back when" I should have gotten larger and put a
good crew together and get out there and do alot of churches, spread out and
hit the road. (there are only so many churches in my area) I didn't do that,
I did the custom entries, (still do that on occasion), restored original
Tiffany windows, lamps and desk pieces for a collector/dealer and made a
living doing it. I enjoyed it all. I learned alot of different things but
what I didn't do was sock money away for NOW.

I foresee, and predict, that the small studio business will become like the
carpenter or brick mason. These guys go out and work on the job, or have a
small workshop in their home to "pre-build", or construct, then go out on
the job and install.

The economy and the cheap imported items, whatever they may be, will drive
the small storefront studio into the "basement" creating more "basement
bandits" that can cut prices because they have no or little overhead and
they want the work so they can pay their bills. The fine craftsman with the
wealth of knowledge, will not be able to afford all the expenses of a
storefront. Rent, taxes, utilities,taxes, insurance, advertising, taxes,
and labor, with taxes, insurance, and all that is involved. and yes I
mention taxes alot.

So the problem doesn't just involve the retailer, it is a just like a
mudslide, the retailer is just on the edge at the moment, some will go over,
some will not, same with the small studio.

I just figure the more I know how to do, the better off I am, somebody will
need to have something done, and I will know how to do it, and the last few
years have proved that point to me. It has not been easy, in fact far from
it, but I haven't gone over the edge, and don't intend to.

As a wholesale supplier to working artisans as well as small retailers,
I think the only retailers that will become extinct are those unwilling
to adapt to market changes. The demand for stained glass supplies has
diminshed dramatically but has been compensated for with increased
demand for kilnforming supplies. At this point, about 75% of sales are
for kilnforming with only 25% for conventional stained glass.
Retailers that have recognized the change and have set up to teach
fusing/slumping and sell supplies for kilnforming are doing fine. Many
are expanding rapidly and having difficulty meeting the demand for
classes. Every class produces new customers and on average, one out of
every 10 students will buy a kiln. Also, hobbyists fusing & slumping
use considerably more glass than those doing stained glass. It might
take someone a while to use up $100 worth of glass making a lamp or
window, but a fuser can use that up in a few days.

Dennis Brady
http://www.victorianartglass.biz