Dear Red States

"Karen C in California" wrote
I would be more impressed with the great "blue" state of California if
its rich, healthy, educated, well-employed, tax-paying tolerant tanned
and happy people had not brought an end to the right of gay and lesbian
couples (presumably also mainly rich, healthy, educated, well-employed
tax payers) to civil marriage.

Dawne

Yes, I was shocked to hear that. I thought California was supposed to
be ahead of everyone.


Succinctly, we have had an influx of religious-persecution refugees, who
think that it's OK for them to persecute anyone who doesn't believe
exactly as they do. (Including other brands of Christians.) These folks
would be much happier in one of the Bible-thumping Red States; they did
not realize what radical ideas they were going to be exposing their
children to by moving to the state with the best weather. Rather than
moving to where they'd fit in better, they want to change us to fit their
mold.

If these "red neck immigrants" and their churches were powerful enough to
defeat the proposition, why were they not powerful enough to vote the state
red???

Dawne

"Dawne Peterson" wrote in message
el...

"Karen C in California" wrote
I would be more impressed with the great "blue" state of California if
its rich, healthy, educated, well-employed, tax-paying tolerant tanned
and happy people had not brought an end to the right of gay and lesbian
couples (presumably also mainly rich, healthy, educated, well-employed
tax payers) to civil marriage.

Dawne

Yes, I was shocked to hear that. I thought California was supposed to
be ahead of everyone.


Succinctly, we have had an influx of religious-persecution refugees, who
think that it's OK for them to persecute anyone who doesn't believe
exactly as they do. (Including other brands of Christians.) These folks
would be much happier in one of the Bible-thumping Red States; they did
not realize what radical ideas they were going to be exposing their
children to by moving to the state with the best weather. Rather than
moving to where they'd fit in better, they want to change us to fit their
mold.

If these "red neck immigrants" and their churches were powerful enough to
defeat the proposition, why were they not powerful enough to vote the
state red???

Dawne



That just proves that ignorance isn't particular. There are three kinds of
people-- ignorant democrats, ignorant republicans and those who think.

Lucille

flitterbit wrote:
It would appear the "no"
campaign didn't do as good a job as they could have of dispelling
misconceptions, or of instilling the idea that the whole point of
permitting gays to marry was to extend equal rights to everyone, not
just heterosexuals, or of just plain emphasizing that gays are no
different than anyone else, they hold jobs, they vote, they buy homes,
they raise families, etc.



Unfortunately, the No campaign didn't have as much money as the Yes
campaign to blanket the airwaves with homophobic ads. OMG, our children
are going to be taught in school that gays are no different than anyone
else! The world will end if someone in the school even uses the word
"gay" instead of "sick wackos".

One of the Yes ads concluded with a cute little kid saying "think about
what it means to me". And I yelled back at the TV "it means you won't
grow up as prejudiced as your parents!"

You want to know who's really "making a mockery of marriage"? Heteros.
I was invited to a wedding in July. Got an e-mail the other day that
they've already split up. And that's not the only marriage I know
first-hand that lasted six months or less. Most of my gay friends have
been together 20+ years.

--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

Finished 10/7/08 - Sun Fun (Dimensions)

WIP: Nativity from "Countdown to Christmas" book, Oriental Kimono
(Janlynn),
MLI The Teacher (gift to the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://cfs-facts.blogspot.com/

Jinx Minx wrote:
And perhaps the reason California needs to start work at 8am, is because
they need to in order to be in time synch with the rest of the working
states, not because they are harder workers. MY lawyer starts work at 7am.


Well, if we are being in synch with the East Coast, then we should be
leaving at 3 PM when they go home at 6 their time. We work 8-5 out
here, not the proverbial 9-5. Or, like NYC firms, 10-5.

I used to work for a lawyer who started his day at 6 AM. This isn't
about lawyers, who come and go at will; this is about the secretarial
staff who are required to be there set hours.



--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

Finished 10/7/08 - Sun Fun (Dimensions)

WIP: Nativity from "Countdown to Christmas" book, Oriental Kimono
(Janlynn),
MLI The Teacher (gift to the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://cfs-facts.blogspot.com/

flitterbit wrote:
I really don't understand why some people feel so threatened by gay
people; the only difference between gays and heterosexuals is to whom
they're sexually attracted.


DBF's theory is that people who are unsure of their own sexuality are
the ones who feel threatened. And notes that many people, in their 20s,
go through a period of curiosity, which then makes them wonder the rest
of their lives if they really are.

Personally, I've been propositioned by a couple of lesbians who think
that because I'm divorced I should hate men. Did I cry on S's shoulder
when my relationship broke up? Yeah. Did I find her sexually
attractive while I was doing it? No. She just happened to be the
nearest person when I got the news. I am 150% hetero; when I got
married, it was Hallelujah, I never have to live with women again.



--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

Finished 10/7/08 - Sun Fun (Dimensions)

WIP: Nativity from "Countdown to Christmas" book, Oriental Kimono
(Janlynn),
MLI The Teacher (gift to the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://cfs-facts.blogspot.com/

dark.angel wrote:

It's people like YOU that make other
people too afraid to pray in front of me once they find out I'm a Dem.


Not me. I manage to be both a Dem and a Christian.

However, I can't begin to count how many Reps have made statements in my
presence to the effect of "all Jews/Buddhists/Muslims are going straight
to hell because they're not Christians". Dems are more tolerant of
other religions.



--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

Finished 10/7/08 - Sun Fun (Dimensions)

WIP: Nativity from "Countdown to Christmas" book, Oriental Kimono
(Janlynn),
MLI The Teacher (gift to the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://cfs-facts.blogspot.com/

Jangchub wrote:

We've been hearing the vitriol for decades going back to
41, then through the Clinton years when they didn't have one nice or
kind word to say about anything Clinton did.



I remember that, too.

My staunchest Republican friend (yes, I do have some of those) has
always excused any slam against the Clintons as "but it's true". Then
someone uttered an equal truth "Bush invaded Iraq because of 9/11, when
Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11", and suddenly she was all for
respecting the President because he was the President; completely
obliterated from her memory all the nasty things said about the previous
President, which she cheered them saying.

Hillary's "vast right-wing conspiracy" attacking the Clinton White House
morphed into "liberal media" when it started attacking the Bush White House.

But look at "the media" -- most radio talk shows are conservative, not
liberal. I don't remember exact quotes, but I do remember
reading/hearing some absolutely obnoxious things said about the Clintons
by Limbaugh (who got his start here in Northern California). Where was
the "you must respect the office, if not the man" when he was running
his foul mouth?

CNN gets accused of being "liberal" media, by people who have no clue
that CNN is the one who invites both Democratic and Republican
commentators and listens to both with equal respect. Unlike many
conservative media who only invite Democrats on so that they can scream
at them and call them stupid.

I've listened to conservative talk radio, I've sampled Fox News, and I
refuse to listen to them any longer because they rely on screaming and
belittling anyone who doesn't agree with them. CNN is always polite and
quiet, and opposing viewpoints are listened to.

Let me rephrase that: CNN's staff (both Dem and Rep) are always polite
and quiet. Some of the invited guests have been screamers and verbal
abusers.

--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

Finished 10/7/08 - Sun Fun (Dimensions)

WIP: Nativity from "Countdown to Christmas" book, Oriental Kimono
(Janlynn),
MLI The Teacher (gift to the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://cfs-facts.blogspot.com/

Dawne Peterson wrote:

"Karen C in California" wrote

I would be more impressed with the great "blue" state of California if
its rich, healthy, educated, well-employed, tax-paying tolerant tanned
and happy people had not brought an end to the right of gay and lesbian
couples (presumably also mainly rich, healthy, educated, well-employed
tax payers) to civil marriage.

Dawne

Yes, I was shocked to hear that. I thought California was supposed to
be ahead of everyone.


Succinctly, we have had an influx of religious-persecution refugees, who
think that it's OK for them to persecute anyone who doesn't believe
exactly as they do. (Including other brands of Christians.) These folks
would be much happier in one of the Bible-thumping Red States; they did
not realize what radical ideas they were going to be exposing their
children to by moving to the state with the best weather. Rather than
moving to where they'd fit in better, they want to change us to fit their
mold.


If these "red neck immigrants" and their churches were powerful enough to
defeat the proposition, why were they not powerful enough to vote the state
red???

Dawne



Good question. I suspect some of them voted only on Prop 8 and nothing
else on the ballot. Let me get the final/official statistics (available
end of the month) and see which issues/people have substantially more or
less votes than the others.

Back when I was deeply involved in politics, we did analyze such things
at our December meeting, and there were clearly people who (for example)
voted for president but none of the propositions, because the total
votes for president was so much higher.

And I'm glad when people are voting only for the things that matter to
them, and not casting uninformed votes for (or against) other parts of
the ballot, for reasons like "I knew a Karen once, I think I'll vote for
this Karen without knowing anything more about her than her name", just
because they think they have to vote on everything.

However, I do know some of the black churches were urging a vote against
gay marriage, but a vote in favor of Brother Barack. Our new mayor was
going to be one of those split voters.

--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

Finished 10/7/08 - Sun Fun (Dimensions)

WIP: Nativity from "Countdown to Christmas" book, Oriental Kimono
(Janlynn),
MLI The Teacher (gift to the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://cfs-facts.blogspot.com/

Jangchub wrote:

If people would watch the movie "All Aboard" to see just how amazing
they are as parents of children nobody wants. One gay couple adopted
four children of a crack addicted woman who kept getting pregnant.
They held one baby for months because he too was addicted to drugs. I
have never seen such happy faces, sweet faces, smiling and love
pouring out. This is such a non issue and has no place on the ballot.
IMO.


ABSOLUTELY!

I think everyone who voted against gay marriage needs to meet a gay
couple up close and personal. I think a lot of the problem is "fear of
the unknown".

I was diagnosed with CFS at the same time that a friend's partner was
diagnosed with AIDS. I really saw the difference in commitment: My
hetero spouse refused to get a full-time job so that I could follow
doctor's orders to go part-time to preserve my health; my gay friend
took a leave of absence from his job to nurse his partner. My church
refused to send one single person to provide one bit of assistance when
I was bedridden for several weeks; they had a steady stream of gay
friends bringing food, couples who'd show up "he's going to take you to
a movie, and I'm going to take care of John to give you a break", offers
of financial assistance once John was unable to work...

When it was all over, my friend said "I don't know how I would've coped
without all that support", then stopped short, apologized for his
insensitivity, "how DID you manage without all the support John and I had?"

--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

Finished 10/7/08 - Sun Fun (Dimensions)

WIP: Nativity from "Countdown to Christmas" book, Oriental Kimono
(Janlynn),
MLI The Teacher (gift to the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://cfs-facts.blogspot.com/

"flitterbit" wrote in message
...
dark.angel wrote:
In article , Karen C in California
wrote:

Dear Red States:


snipped



Peace out,

The Blue States

If your discriminatory spews are any indicator (and I think they are),
you're about as "Blue" as Bush!!! Try walking the talk, not just
blabbering on about it.

I hope against all hope that your post was a failed attempt at humor.
If not, don't be surprised if our party disowns you. I think even Obama
would be horribly ashamed at your post. Horribly.


Karen didn't write the piece; it's been circulating the Web since the 2004
Presidential election.

And that`s a justification for putting it on here???

Pat