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#11
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"Meredith Williams" wrote in message ... Hi Giselle, I set up a shed studio in my backyard last fall and I was asking the same questions. I don't use propane at all in my house, so I had a 100 lb tank installed for the shed to supply both the torch (minor burner) and the wall mounted heater. The tank is about 10 feet from the shed sitting on a concrete pad. Copper tubing runs underground to the corner of the shed where it goes into a 25psi regulator. The output of the 25psi reg is then split into 2 separate lines - one goes to another regulator that brings the pressure down to the 1/2psi for the heater; the other line goes to a single-stage propane regulator* (with gauges for tank and line pressure) that can be adjusted from 0 to 25psi. Both lines coming into the shed have their own shut-off valves, and there is a master shutoff at the tank. *I bought the torch, hoses and regulator from Arrowsprings Meredith GREAT ideas. Where did you get your propane heater? I'll need one of those in a few more months, too. I was surprised when the propane guy said a house tank ran on 1/2 psi -- whodda thunk it? -- but I guess you just confirmed it. You didn't get the flashback arrester, though. Any reason why? I know that someone said in the thread (sorry, can't remember who) that the dual feed torches don't need the arrester and I was glad to hear that. Giselle |
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#12
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On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 10:49:31 -0500, "Fragile Warrior Bees"
wrote: You didn't get the flashback arrester, though. Any reason why? I know that someone said in the thread (sorry, can't remember who) that the dual feed torches don't need the arrester and I was glad to hear that. It's the surface mix torches (as opposed to premix) that don't need them. Tink Martin - Art Glass Check here for available work: http://blackswampglassworks.com/latest.htm |
#13
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"Tinkster" wrote in message ... On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 10:49:31 -0500, "Fragile Warrior Bees" wrote: You didn't get the flashback arrester, though. Any reason why? I know that someone said in the thread (sorry, can't remember who) that the dual feed torches don't need the arrester and I was glad to hear that. It's the surface mix torches (as opposed to premix) that don't need them. Tink Martin - Art Glass Check here for available work: http://blackswampglassworks.com/latest.htm Right, and that was you that said that, right? Sorry, I forgot your name and the wording but the general idea stuck with me. Giselle (gettin' old) |
#14
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Fragile Warrior Bees wrote: "Kalera" wrote in message ... You should be able to just use a pancake regulator with most torches; it's a cheap little doohickey and drops the pressure down to about what you need, which is, depending on your torch, 5-10 PSI. A two-stage regulator is going to be a very large and not entirely necessary expense; most people do fine with single-stage regulators at half the cost. Pancake regulators are a fraction of even that cost. I'm not entirely sure if I'm buying the regulator or renting it at this point. We'll have to see. I'm mildly alarmed that Mr. Propane & Propane Accessories doesn't know what a flashback arrestor is. :O! All it is, is essentially a backflow valve that prevents anything (FIRE) from flowing backward into the tank and causing an explosion. Yep, he said that can't happen. No propane = no flame. The end. Honest to God, unless they call it something entirely different here in East Bubblebutt, Indiana, he did not know what I was talking about. I gave him the backwash scenerio and he said he did not think it could possibly occur. Their welding torches do not use it. But there would, indeed, be propane. It is the propane that would be on fire! You might want to check your Yellow Pages for a welding supply shop in your area. Their torches are very similar and the way you set them up is virtually identical, so they will probably be many times more helpful. They'll have the right hoses, regulators, quick-connects, flashback arrestors, the works. Nearest welding place is like 50 miles away. I was hoping to find something closer to home but I'll keep it in mind in case I need to go elsewhere. Thx, Giselle -- -Kalera http://www.beadwife.com |
#15
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Very interesting! I didn't know that the functionality of the arrestor
is tied to the pressure. I probably run my regulator far too low for the arrestor to be useful, then. I did know that flashback arrestors aren't really necessary on surface-mix torches because they don't flashback, but it's kind of a nice notion in case of the also incredibly unlikely hose rupture. Tinkster wrote: Pancake regulators don't typically offer enough pressure to allow a flashback arrestor to work. The good news is that for a surface mix torch, an arrestor really isn't required. Tink Martin - Art Glass Check here for available work: http://blackswampglassworks.com/latest.htm -- -Kalera http://www.beadwife.com |
#16
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"Kalera" wrote in message ... Yep, he said that can't happen. No propane = no flame. The end. Honest to God, unless they call it something entirely different here in East Bubblebutt, Indiana, he did not know what I was talking about. I gave him the backwash scenerio and he said he did not think it could possibly occur. Their welding torches do not use it. But there would, indeed, be propane. It is the propane that would be on fire! No, he meant propane ON. Even if turned off in incorrect order, he said no, couldn't happen. shrug Giselle (we'll see. If I make the news, you'll know he was wrong. Sue him for me, 'kay?) |
#17
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Flashback can happen when you're actually using a torch, not when the
tank valve is closed. It's not a likely occurrence, made more or less nonexistent by using a surface-mix torch. I'm just baffled and a bit appalled that he denies that it occurs at all and has never even heard of flashback arrestors, ever, despite the fact that A: Flashback is a well-known phenomenon, and B: the arrestors are standard equipment available at every welding and glass supply store. I personally know boro workers using premix torches that have had non-catastrophic flashbacks. http://www.toolboxtopics.com/Gen%20I...0Flashback.htm http://info.anu.edu.au/hr/OHS/Hazard..._Arrestors.asp http://www.murexwelding.co.uk/mrxcont/gas/mrxgcse.htm http://www.iigas.com/fba.htm http://www.butbro.co.uk/flashback.htm Obviously, since you're using a surface-mix torch, it's not really an issue for you. However, his ignorance on this matter tends to make me worry about the validity of his knowledge in other areas... for example, renting you a regulator. They're not *that* expensive! A pancake regulator can be had for about $12! It may benefit you to run stuff by us here, or a place like ISGB.org, Artglassforum.com, or Lampworketc.com, populated by glass techie types, before you go by what Mr. Propane & Propane Accessories tells you. Fragile Warrior Bees wrote: "Kalera" wrote in message ... Yep, he said that can't happen. No propane = no flame. The end. Honest to God, unless they call it something entirely different here in East Bubblebutt, Indiana, he did not know what I was talking about. I gave him the backwash scenerio and he said he did not think it could possibly occur. Their welding torches do not use it. But there would, indeed, be propane. It is the propane that would be on fire! No, he meant propane ON. Even if turned off in incorrect order, he said no, couldn't happen. shrug Giselle (we'll see. If I make the news, you'll know he was wrong. Sue him for me, 'kay?) -- -Kalera http://www.beadwife.com |
#18
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I work at 6-7 PSI with my Minor and concentrator. With tanked oxy I worked
a little higher - like 10 PSI. I believe flashback arrestors are used more for tanked oxy, because there's more pressure there, and it's always on. But there's no need for one on a concentrator, because of the way it works - there's not enough pressure, and you're turning it off daily. Bleeding your propane lines every night will help reduce the risk of any flashbacks, but even if there was a risk, it wouldbe tiny due to the lack of sufficient pressure. You will want regulators that will read very low PSI, and you'll want to buy it. I think I got mine for $50 each or something like that. But don't quote me because it has been awhile. Seriously, though - doing tanked oxy is such a serious hassle and a pain. If you can afford the $300 for a concentrator, chances are you will never have to deal with oxygen hassles ever again. Just clean the filter with soap and water when it's dirty and keep an eye on your humidity and you're set. If you ever need maintenance, there are people who can help. -- Kandice Seeber www.lampwork.net I'm working with our local propane (and propane accessories guy to get a 100# propane tank for the studio. He has some regulators on hand and has asked specifically what sort of PSI lampworking uses for the propane end of the mix. Can someone help me with that? In the books or sites I've seen, they talk about one-stage and two-stage regulators but they never mention the PSI needs. He has the two-stage regulators, I believe. Also, he thought that a flashback arrester was just sort of a gimmick. He had actually never heard of the term and is going home at lunch to look at the site where I first saw them to find out what they are. What's everyone's opinion on this bit of info? Does he not know what he's talking about, is the terminology just odd or are they a gimmick? Thx, Giselle |
#19
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Yeah, that is pretty weird. I got my flashback arrestors at Frantz, but
it's the welding store guy that told me how to hook it up. -- Kandice Seeber www.lampwork.net Flashback can happen when you're actually using a torch, not when the tank valve is closed. It's not a likely occurrence, made more or less nonexistent by using a surface-mix torch. I'm just baffled and a bit appalled that he denies that it occurs at all and has never even heard of flashback arrestors, ever, despite the fact that A: Flashback is a well-known phenomenon, and B: the arrestors are standard equipment available at every welding and glass supply store. I personally know boro workers using premix torches that have had non-catastrophic flashbacks. http://www.toolboxtopics.com/Gen%20I...0Flashback.htm http://info.anu.edu.au/hr/OHS/Hazard..._Arrestors.asp http://www.murexwelding.co.uk/mrxcont/gas/mrxgcse.htm http://www.iigas.com/fba.htm http://www.butbro.co.uk/flashback.htm Obviously, since you're using a surface-mix torch, it's not really an issue for you. However, his ignorance on this matter tends to make me worry about the validity of his knowledge in other areas... for example, renting you a regulator. They're not *that* expensive! A pancake regulator can be had for about $12! It may benefit you to run stuff by us here, or a place like ISGB.org, Artglassforum.com, or Lampworketc.com, populated by glass techie types, before you go by what Mr. Propane & Propane Accessories tells you. Fragile Warrior Bees wrote: "Kalera" wrote in message ... Yep, he said that can't happen. No propane = no flame. The end. Honest to God, unless they call it something entirely different here in East Bubblebutt, Indiana, he did not know what I was talking about. I gave him the backwash scenerio and he said he did not think it could possibly occur. Their welding torches do not use it. But there would, indeed, be propane. It is the propane that would be on fire! No, he meant propane ON. Even if turned off in incorrect order, he said no, couldn't happen. shrug Giselle (we'll see. If I make the news, you'll know he was wrong. Sue him for me, 'kay?) -- -Kalera http://www.beadwife.com |
#20
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All propane tanks must be kept outside whenever possible. Leaks can be
deadly, and they do happen. -- Kandice Seeber www.lampwork.net Giselle, the pressure you need is determined in large part by the torch you have. What torch will you be using? A Nortel Minor. Also, the propane tank will be outside the studio, yes? We're deciding. Since we operate the house on propane, there's a 300# tank between the house and the studio location. The "studio" will be a room sectioned off in a large, empty metal structure. The tank can be place anywhere at this point but are you asking if it will it be far away from open flame? Far enough. I'm chicken. But I am getting used to living around tanks of propane that can obliterate all life in a 1/2 mile area. |
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