Lead laws

Dennis Brady wrote:

Like many things, it'll likely depend on which party forms the next
government. Usually it's the Democrats that are most concerned about
health and the environment, but this issue is truly about neither.
It's being agressively promoted by companies that hope to have lead
banned so you'll be forced to buy non-lead products (that by an
interesting co-incidence they make). A Republican government is more
likely to support their intensive lobbying.

This whole anti-lead movement can be easily and effectly killed. Just
demand the advocates supply proof for the need.


They'll supply that proof right after the proof of WMDs in Iraq.
--
Jack


http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/xmissionbobo/

On 4/22/04 5:44 PM, in article
, "Dennis Brady"
wrote:

Like many things, it'll likely depend on which party forms the next
government. Usually it's the Democrats that are most concerned about
health and the environment, but this issue is truly about neither.
It's being agressively promoted by companies that hope to have lead
banned so you'll be forced to buy non-lead products (that by an
interesting co-incidence they make). A Republican government is more
likely to support their intensive lobbying.

In some cases - lead based solders are being regulated internationally - and
with concern more for disposal and leaching lead into water supplies in the
case of electronics and stained glass. Since the toxicity of ingested (in
this case breathing in lead fumes makes it to the blood stream as well as
eating lead) is well understood and not in dispute - the movement to lead
free solders will be sped up or slowed down by political parties - but not
stopped or reversed, if experience is a guide.

IN electronics, there are as many technical barriers to adopting lead free
as in stained glass - and the electronics markets are much larger in
lobbying power - so until there is a workable alternative - I would not
think that sweeping regulations are immediate - despite tough deadlines
currently in place.



This whole anti-lead movement can be easily and effectly killed. Just
demand the advocates supply proof for the need.

Okay here are some starting places for you - easily attained by a quick
google search on my part:

http://www.epa.gov/ttn/atw/hlthef/lead.html
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/HEC/CSEM/lead/
http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic293.htm
http://www.relfe.com/chelation/lead_toxicity.htm
http://www.freep.com/lead/
http://www.environmentaldiseases.com..._toxicity.html
http://www.michigan.gov/deq/0,1607,7...5473--,00.html
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts13.html
http://www.uwsp.edu/geo/courses/geog...ad-Science.htm
www.uicomp.uic.edu/Dept/DBTS/lead.htm

Lead poisoning is a very well documented condition - evidence even as early
as the Roman era and evidence that breathing fumes in are as effective if
not more so than eating lead inadvertently.

If you handle a lot of solder, you had better take some precautions if you
do not want high lead levels in your blood - the effects of lead in the
bloodstream are well documented and not in dispute. Cognitive problems -
i.e. Insantity - it has been speculated that it affected the Roman
government's ability to function at one point - and while not in favor as a
theory for the rise and fall of Rome, its reason for dispute is NOT whether
lead is poisonous or not.

what ARE the symptoms of lead -poisoning? m

Lead has been regulated in most countries for some time. I believe
the only country moving to ban it completely is the U.S. The push for
that ban isn't for health and safety but to provide increased economic
opportunities for companies hoping to sell alternatives.

I fully support the movement to ban lead in the U.S. - for entirely
selfish reasons. When it's unavailable in the U.S., I'm gunna become
repugnantly rich by smuggling it in from Canada (which as it has done
with many things, will NOT be following the poorly thought out and
non-scientifically justified American lead).

"Michele Blank" wrote in message
...
what ARE the symptoms of lead -poisoning? m

The problem is analagous to putting a frog in a pot of cold water and then
turning up the heat. He just sits there, fat dumb, and happy until the
water is boiling and his ass is cooked. And he didn't ever see it coming.

My levels are way elevated. "Normal", if there is such a thing, is 10
micrograms/decaliter of blood. Mine was 54 in the first test, and 48 in a
repeat test 10 days later. The literature suggests that 70 has the
potential to be fatal, but the one doc I saw said he has seen levels as
high as 110. The person had neuro problems, but wasn't DRT. (Dead right
there.) The current levels are up from 17 about 18 months ago.

In my case, there aren't any specific symptoms that I can point to, other
than some digestive ones that "may" be related to the lead. The problem is
that the serum lead levels are only the tip of the proverbial iceberg. Lead
will sequester itself in the connective tissues, bone marrow, organs, as
well as in the blood. I'm told that it can be "reversed" by chelation
therapy, and if the chelation is done long enough, nearly all the lead can
be excreted. Problem is, the chelation isn't lead specific, it will also
cause you to excrete the body's necessary minerals, too. So you have to be
on a supplement of vitamins and minerals.

My SO works at CDC, so I've had a chance to talk at length with the MD in
charge of the CDC's branch that specializes in lead abatement and lead
poisoning. He told me that their studies indicate mere handling of "new"
lead came wasn't a significant risk. Higher risks were present from
soldering (inhalation of the "smoke"), and he seemed to think there might
be some benefit to using the least aggressive, non-smoking flux available.
The most danger to SG workers comes from handling old lead in repairs and
restoration work. (BINGO!!!)

According to the CDC doc. the most dangerous aspect is the white "bloom"
that builds up on weathered panels, a lead oxide. It is usually not
tightly bound to the lead came, and when disturbed, becomes airborne and
easily inhaled. A respirator is, IMHO, now as mandatory as safety glasses.
Soldering on old, oxidized work, using paste flux that smokes like crazy,
and not cleaning a panel before working on it is what has done me in, I
suppose. I guess I'm going to start wiping down repairs with a wet
throw-away wipe before I begin.

I also have been using ammonia on the panels to soften the putty. I don't
remember my college chemistry well enough to know if the ammonia is reacting
somehow with the lead oxide and making some inorganic compound that I'm
absorbing through the skin. That's one of the things I want to find out
from the CDC/ Emory connection I have coming up. My brother has a degree in
chemistry, and I've written him asking the question, but no response, yet.

Before I begin a regimen of treatment, I have two more MD's to see. I've
seen one this past week who has successfully treated some SG workers in the
past. Problem with him is that he's not in our insurance and I'd have to do
a bunch of paperwork to get reimbursed. (And the treatment isn't cheap).

I have an appointment Tues with another chelation expert, and I have made
contact with the chief resident at Emory University's Med School
Occupational Health Department. Emory and CDC are very intertwined, with
some people on both payrolls. This is where I really want to be treated
because they will be on the cutting edge (no pun intended) of the science.
I'm just waiting for a phone call from them to get me into the clinic.

On 5/22/04 3:05 PM, in article
, "Dennis Brady"
wrote:

Lead has been regulated in most countries for some time. I believe
the only country moving to ban it completely is the U.S. The push for
that ban isn't for health and safety but to provide increased economic
opportunities for companies hoping to sell alternatives.

That is certainly one opinion. The addition of lead into gasoline was
initially economically motivated and lobbied for by the lead additive
companies - and the possible problems were known at the time.

The removal of lead form electronics is motivated by European countries that
are starting to see elevated lead levels in their water due to leaching of
lead from electronics in landfills. They haven't, until recently, taken
steps against lead in gasoline.

I fully support the movement to ban lead in the U.S. - for entirely
selfish reasons. When it's unavailable in the U.S., I'm gunna become
repugnantly rich by smuggling it in from Canada (which as it has done
with many things, will NOT be following the poorly thought out and
non-scientifically justified American lead).

Until a viable alternative for electronics is found - I doubt solders will
be lead free for some time.

Good luck with the business plan for that - not sure the penalties or
exactly when it will take effect.

"Dennis Brady" wrote in message
om...
Lead has been regulated in most countries for some time. I believe
the only country moving to ban it completely is the U.S. The push for
that ban isn't for health and safety but to provide increased economic
opportunities for companies hoping to sell alternatives.

Really? And just WHO would those companies be? I have a few grand of
investable cash to stick in some up and coming stock.

Of course, following your economic advice would be a sure road to the
poorhouse. Never mind.



I fully support the movement to ban lead in the U.S. - for entirely
selfish reasons. When it's unavailable in the U.S., I'm gunna become
repugnantly rich by smuggling it in from Canada (which as it has done
with many things, will NOT be following the poorly thought out and
non-scientifically justified American lead).

And I'll be the first Yank to drop a dime on you.

I googled "lead poisoning symptoms" and got plenty. It seems to me more
dangerous to kids. Below is one summary. John Bassett

After being ingested lead enters the bloodstream and is absorbed and stored in
many tissues and organs in the body, including the liver, kidneys, brain, teeth
and bones.
High levels of lead can cause serious health problems in your children. Lead
poisoning can affect almost every organ system of the body, including:

brain and central nervous system, causing:
lower IQs
headaches
memory problems
reduced coordination
learning disabilities
irritability
hyperactivity
increased sleeping
decreased activity and fatigue
hearing loss
vomiting
slow reflexes
muscle weakness, affecting mainly the upper extremities
seizures, coma, hypertension in high levels
gastrointestinal system, causing:
constipation
diarrhea
abdominal pain
vomiting
poor appetite
weight loss
blood system, causing anemia or low blood counts
kidney problems
reproductive system, causing:
miscarriages
premature birth
low birth weight
If your child has any of these symptoms of lead poisoning and he is at risk for
lead exposure then you should see your doctor immediately. Most children with
lead poisoning do not have any symptoms, so if your child is at risk you should
still have him tested even if he is not having any problems.

Some effects of lead poisoning, such as poor school performance because of a
low IQ, do not show up until a child is much older, at which time they will
probably have a normal lead level, and so may not be attributed to lead
poisoning.

John and Christina

"Bart V" wrote in message
...
frog in a pot of cold water ~ ~ ~

In my case, there aren't any specific symptoms that I can point to, other
than some digestive ones that "may" be related to the lead

Your post was well educated and concise - your brain is
obviously still capable of doing a good job despite the high numbers.
I'm guessing you're kinda freaked out right now so don't loose sight
of common sense, you've always had plenty of that. The symptom list
that was posted, keep in mind that that's how it is for SOME people
SOME times but it is not guaranteed to work out for you, or anyone
else, that way. It sounds like you're in very capable medical hands,
go with what they say and forget about hearsay fiction by
non-medicalitioners.

Best to you, I'm keepin' them crossed for you, keep us posted.

Bart.


I appreciate (and needed) your kind words. Thanks.

And I'll be the first Yank to drop a dime on you.

Wouldn't help. U.S. Customs is so frantically searching for Canadian
pot they'd never notice a coupla tons of lead.

Save that dime to invest. In any foreign company that continues to
produce lead.