Should I buy a local stained glass supply store?

Thanks for all the advice. There's a lot to think about. I may be
getting in over my head at the current level of my business experience.
To answer Glassman's question: It would have to be the primary source
of income for me. I agree happiness is more important than money but
then not having enough money to live would make the happiness rather
short-lived. I'll have to think & pray hard about it and hope I don't
regret the decision either way it goes.

Thanks again,
Cathy


Cathy many times all it takes is youth, energy, and willpower to turn a
stagnant business into a new place. How many times have we seen a little
"dive" change hands and become a thriving business. I was working in my
garage when I got a call from my local SG shops' owners father. "She's
running the place into the ground, she doesn't even have any solder", he
said of his daughter. "JK, make me a reasonable offer and the place is
yours", he told me. I was doing OK, but not great, working out of my
garage. I really had to think about this a long time. I bought it for a
song. Little inventory but a cheap rent and a legitimate storefront. 20
years later, it was the right decision. If as you say they are already
successful, then why not buy it for a really great price. Inventory plus,
and make it happen.


--
"Don't get me wrong... I'm SNARKY"
JK Sinrod


Who else is around you? Are there other places nearby? Go sit across the
street in a parking lot , observe, hell, go in and introduce yourself and
look around. Just don't say, "I might be your new competition" but be low
key and honest. Se what others are doing and how well, not how well they
tell you. Sit in the parking lot away to observe, see how much traffic
they really have on different days besides payday... learn, lots to learn,

"Javahut" wrote in message
...

Thanks for all the advice. There's a lot to think about. I may be
getting in over my head at the current level of my business
experience.
To answer Glassman's question: It would have to be the primary
source
of income for me. I agree happiness is more important than money but
then not having enough money to live would make the happiness rather
short-lived. I'll have to think & pray hard about it and hope I don't
regret the decision either way it goes.

Thanks again,
Cathy


Cathy many times all it takes is youth, energy, and willpower to turn
a
stagnant business into a new place. How many times have we seen a little
"dive" change hands and become a thriving business. I was working in my
garage when I got a call from my local SG shops' owners father. "She's
running the place into the ground, she doesn't even have any solder", he
said of his daughter. "JK, make me a reasonable offer and the place is
yours", he told me. I was doing OK, but not great, working out of my
garage. I really had to think about this a long time. I bought it for a
song. Little inventory but a cheap rent and a legitimate storefront. 20
years later, it was the right decision. If as you say they are already
successful, then why not buy it for a really great price. Inventory
plus,
and make it happen.


--
"Don't get me wrong... I'm SNARKY"
JK Sinrod


Who else is around you? Are there other places nearby? Go sit across the
street in a parking lot , observe, hell, go in and introduce yourself and
look around. Just don't say, "I might be your new competition" but be low
key and honest. Se what others are doing and how well, not how well they
tell you. Sit in the parking lot away to observe, see how much traffic
they really have on different days besides payday... learn, lots to learn,



Just to add to my little story.... when I started out there were 5 other
SG places within a few miles. In a matter of a short few years there are
none left except me. I could never figure out of it was a good or bad thing!

--
"Don't get me wrong... I'm SNARKY"
JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

Ok, since you've all been so helpful (thank you) I will give you
another consideration that would weigh in the decision: What I am
doing now and would continue if I didn't buy the store. As I said I've
been working in stained glass since 2001. Up to 2004 it was just a
hobby and I did things for myself. In 2004 I declared myself a
business officially to the state and started doing craft shows (some
limited success there but mostly just covering expenses). I also
established myself on the web at www.glassradiance.com which has been
only a showcase for my work (only two sales so far). This is the
extent of my business experience.

My money making job for the past 10 years has been as a computer
programmer. I recently left that line of work having tired of it and
am now a full-time student studying graphic design/computer animation
at a local community college. I had saved up money for this
transition. The plan is (was?) to get the graphic design degree and
then a job most probably doing web site design and/or computer
animation. This I feel would use my artistic talents as well as my
computer background. I would still continue the craft shows and a
small presence on eBay. I would hope this would lead to some happiness
too but I wouldn't be my own boss (unless I free-lanced).

So those are basically my alternatives. Anyone have any different
thoughts than already expressed?

Cathy

wrote:
Ok, since you've all been so helpful (thank you) I will give you
another consideration that would weigh in the decision: What I am
doing now and would continue if I didn't buy the store. As I said I've
been working in stained glass since 2001. Up to 2004 it was just a
hobby and I did things for myself. In 2004 I declared myself a
business officially to the state and started doing craft shows (some
limited success there but mostly just covering expenses). I also
established myself on the web at www.glassradiance.com which has been
only a showcase for my work (only two sales so far). This is the
extent of my business experience.

My money making job for the past 10 years has been as a computer
programmer. I recently left that line of work having tired of it and
am now a full-time student studying graphic design/computer animation
at a local community college. I had saved up money for this
transition. The plan is (was?) to get the graphic design degree and
then a job most probably doing web site design and/or computer
animation. This I feel would use my artistic talents as well as my
computer background. I would still continue the craft shows and a
small presence on eBay. I would hope this would lead to some happiness
too but I wouldn't be my own boss (unless I free-lanced).

So those are basically my alternatives. Anyone have any different
thoughts than already expressed?

Cathy

It sounds like you don't really have any business experience,
especially to jump in and take over a retail shop. If you want to
design and do web design, I doubt you have time to do that if you're
running a retail store. this is a decision you will have to make. I
think you need to go and talk to a counselor at the SBA so you can get
a real idea as to what's all involved. Also, running a full time retail
shop won't give you the time to do craft shows. If you want to run a
retail shop then you have to be prepared to take on real commisions
that can take a lot of time. Talk to the SBA, your banker and your
accountant before you do anything.

Andy
http://www.neoglassic.com

wrote:
wrote:
Ok, since you've all been so helpful (thank you) I will give you
another consideration that would weigh in the decision: What I am
doing now and would continue if I didn't buy the store. As I said I've
been working in stained glass since 2001. Up to 2004 it was just a
hobby and I did things for myself. In 2004 I declared myself a
business officially to the state and started doing craft shows (some
limited success there but mostly just covering expenses). I also
established myself on the web at www.glassradiance.com which has been
only a showcase for my work (only two sales so far). This is the
extent of my business experience.

My money making job for the past 10 years has been as a computer
programmer. I recently left that line of work having tired of it and
am now a full-time student studying graphic design/computer animation
at a local community college. I had saved up money for this
transition. The plan is (was?) to get the graphic design degree and
then a job most probably doing web site design and/or computer
animation. This I feel would use my artistic talents as well as my
computer background. I would still continue the craft shows and a
small presence on eBay. I would hope this would lead to some happiness
too but I wouldn't be my own boss (unless I free-lanced).

So those are basically my alternatives. Anyone have any different
thoughts than already expressed?

Cathy

It sounds like you don't really have any business experience,
especially to jump in and take over a retail shop. If you want to
design and do web design, I doubt you have time to do that if you're
running a retail store. this is a decision you will have to make. I
think you need to go and talk to a counselor at the SBA so you can get
a real idea as to what's all involved. Also, running a full time retail
shop won't give you the time to do craft shows. If you want to run a
retail shop then you have to be prepared to take on real commisions
that can take a lot of time. Talk to the SBA, your banker and your
accountant before you do anything.

Andy
http://www.neoglassic.com


Just to clarify to Andy (and anyone else reading): I definitely
realize the store would be the full-time attention. I never thought it
would be store and web design or store and shows. It is definitely an
either/or decision. The web design plan was already going when
suddenly this other opportunity presented itself. And I also realize I
have very limited business experience which I mentioned already (which
was where I was hoping the present staff would stay on).

"And I also realize I have very limited business experience which I
mentioned already (which was where I was hoping the present staff would
stay on)."

I would never rely on the staff to handle any of the business affairs
that you should have experience (or at least knowledge) in. Employees
come and go and often times they take with them valueable information
to competitors. Like I said, go see the SBA, your banker, your
accountant and even an attorney. The SBA will be your best source of
face to face information. Remember, you get what you pay for and the
advice here is free. :-)

And I also realize I have very limited business experience which I
mentioned already (which was where I was hoping the present staff would stay
on).
================================================== ============
Somewhere in the earlier threads, someone opined that if it was a great deal
and going concern, why did not the current staff show a major interest in
buying it?

I have been in business (here comes the FLAMES) for about 26 years, a home
based, low to no overhead, plenty of free time to "play" and refuse what I
did not want to do, supply galleries with lampshades, (no suncatchers from
me) freedom to "close" referral type business and teach 3x to 2x to 1x to 0x
a week at the local/loco community college (no more of that). I have seen
all SG shops/stores in the area come, swear they would/could put me out of
business, sell supplies, teach glasses and do commissions..........LEAVE.
Perhaps specializing in shades (GOOD ONES) has given me an edge, as well as
the skill to market them MYSELF!!!!!!!!
In many other of my posts I have always stressed YOU MUST KNOW HOW LONG IT
TAKES ( I run a time clock and still do) to make any project and all the
costs involved in producing it......with a store you have EVEN MORE COSTS
before you even get to score a piece of glass.
I too, agree that if you can financially afford to "work for free" for
about a year, not obsess enough to make you SICK, follow your heart..AFTER
you explore all the time and expense in owning your own business!

Not everyone is "adaptable" to working for ones self.....likewise where
would we be if there were NO self-employed store owners?

howard

wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
wrote:
extent of my business experience.
It sounds like you don't really have any business experience,
especially to jump in and take over a retail shop. If you want to
design and do web design, I doubt you have time to do that if you're
running a retail store. this is a decision you will have to make. I
think you need to go and talk to a counselor at the SBA so you can get
a real idea as to what's all involved. Also, running a full time retail
shop won't give you the time to do craft shows. If you want to run a
retail shop then you have to be prepared to take on real commisions
that can take a lot of time. Talk to the SBA, your banker and your
accountant before you do anything.

Andy
http://www.neoglassic.com


Just to clarify to Andy (and anyone else reading): I definitely
realize the store would be the full-time attention. I never thought it
would be store and web design or store and shows. It is definitely an
either/or decision. The web design plan was already going when
suddenly this other opportunity presented itself. And I also realize I
have very limited business experience which I mentioned already (which
was where I was hoping the present staff would stay on).


Anyone can be a web designer. Heck 12 year olds are doing it. How many
can say they are real stained glass artists? Go for it. Buy it for a song.
What's the worst that can happen? My guess is that the worst case scenario
is that you won't make as much money as you want/like/need. At that point
you'll sell it to someone else and maybe take a small hit, and go back to
the real world of paychecks. You may never have this chance again.
Entrepreneurs take risks.

--
"Don't get me wrong... I'm SNARKY"
JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

Glassman wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
wrote:
extent of my business experience.
It sounds like you don't really have any business experience,
especially to jump in and take over a retail shop. If you want to
design and do web design, I doubt you have time to do that if you're
running a retail store. this is a decision you will have to make. I
think you need to go and talk to a counselor at the SBA so you can get
a real idea as to what's all involved. Also, running a full time retail
shop won't give you the time to do craft shows. If you want to run a
retail shop then you have to be prepared to take on real commisions
that can take a lot of time. Talk to the SBA, your banker and your
accountant before you do anything.

Andy
http://www.neoglassic.com


Just to clarify to Andy (and anyone else reading): I definitely
realize the store would be the full-time attention. I never thought it
would be store and web design or store and shows. It is definitely an
either/or decision. The web design plan was already going when
suddenly this other opportunity presented itself. And I also realize I
have very limited business experience which I mentioned already (which
was where I was hoping the present staff would stay on).


Anyone can be a web designer. Heck 12 year olds are doing it. How many
can say they are real stained glass artists? Go for it. Buy it for a song.
What's the worst that can happen? My guess is that the worst case scenario
is that you won't make as much money as you want/like/need. At that point
you'll sell it to someone else and maybe take a small hit, and go back to
the real world of paychecks. You may never have this chance again.
Entrepreneurs take risks.

--
"Don't get me wrong... I'm SNARKY"
JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

JK,

You've mentioned buying the store "for a song" a couple times. Do you
have a price range in mind that would qualify as a song? The notice
the owner sent said they are wanting to sell the business for $15,000
which would include the company "goodwill" (whatever that is actually),
the customer lists, office equipment, tools, etc. The inventory they
will sell at wholesale rates and estimate the value being $70,000.
They also gave an itemized list of 2005 expenses totalling approx.
$110,000. No mention of what the 2005 income was.

wrote in message
oups.com...

You've mentioned buying the store "for a song" a couple times. Do you
have a price range in mind that would qualify as a song? The notice
the owner sent said they are wanting to sell the business for $15,000
which would include the company "goodwill" (whatever that is actually),
the customer lists, office equipment, tools, etc. The inventory they
will sell at wholesale rates and estimate the value being $70,000.
They also gave an itemized list of 2005 expenses totalling approx.
$110,000. No mention of what the 2005 income was.


If I remember, this store has been around for 25 years? I'm guessing that
maybe half of that $75K inventory figure is obsolete. It's glass that is no
longer "fashionable", etc. Ugly colors, bad textures and the like.
Personally, I wouldn't invest a penny in anything but full sheets of
current catalog items. And then only from Spectrum and Kokomo and Bullseye.
Any other glass mfg I'd discount heavily because it will be slow selling.
Partial sheets and scrap are just that, scrap. New, unopened boxes of
metal came are worth wholesale. Opened boxes? How much is damaged,
twisted, etc? Tool inventory is probably worth wholesale, unless the
packages are shopworn. You have to remember that inventory has no
particular value other than a commodity to be exchanged for cash to buy more
inventory with. Having "inventory" that nobody will buy at any price
actually costs you money. First, that money tied up in obsolete or badly
selected inventory is money you could have had otherwise invested that would
have actually made you money. Second, you are paying rent on floor space to
house the stuff you can't sell.

The leasehold improvements, such as glass racks and work tables and
counters have "some" value. They'd have to be made out of solid walnut,
though, to be worth $15K. IMO, customer lists aren't worth the paper they
are printed on. How much office equipment can a retail store have, anyway?
And how obsolete is it? Shop tools are used....every day you could buy
enough used cutters and pliers and soldering irons on eBay to replace what
you'd be buying for a few hundred$$.

Itemization of expenses will tell you a lot. You need to know what the
sales figures are, too. You need a breakdown of sales by supplies,
custom work, and classes.

Knowing what the beginning of the year inventory is, adding the cost of
the goods purchased, and subtracting the ending inventory will tell you what
the cost of the merchandise sold was. You also need to know what part of
the purchases were consumed internally for custom work.

If you can scan the expense statement and email it to a few of us we can
give you lots better information. You have photos of the place?