***Very OT*** CHRISTMAS ***OT***

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...
Pat P wrote:
"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
. ..

I do agree that it is very interesting how
different religions have different theological perspectives
on what degree of interaction with other religions is
permissible. (Sorry I misread your post--it seemed like
you might be getting at the idea that it's silly for
people to get touchy about how much Christmas can be
celebrated in public institutions when even non-Christians,
or at least Sikhs, don't mind it themselves.)

Well, I think it`s silly for anyone to get touchy about any religious
celebration being held! It harms no-one and adds a lot of cheerfulness
to a dull old world, particularly in the Northern Hemisphere at this time
of the year!

I don't think anyone has a problem with others
*having* a religious celebration. I think people get
ruffled when they perceive that they are being asked
to *participate* in a religious activity not of their
choosing. What gets tricky is what people consider
"participating." Some feel that having their kids
sing Christmas carols or hymns in public school is
participating. Some think having their public tax
dollars go to local government holiday displays
is participating. Etc. Where you fall on those issues
often depends, in part, on your religion's perspective
on whether it's okay to participate and what
constitutes participation in other religion's
festivities.
I think the arguments about the all-Christmas-
all-the-time stuff just comes down to an issue of
taste, and it seems like a lot of Christians are
just as sick of being hammered with Christmas
decorations practically before Halloween as
some non-Christians are ;-)

Best wishes,
Ericka

Not to mention the easter eggs/bunnies which wiull be bombarding us before
Christmas is decently buried! LOL!

Pat P

Pat P wrote:
"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...

I think the arguments about the all-Christmas-
all-the-time stuff just comes down to an issue of
taste, and it seems like a lot of Christians are
just as sick of being hammered with Christmas
decorations practically before Halloween as
some non-Christians are ;-)

Not to mention the easter eggs/bunnies which wiull be bombarding us before
Christmas is decently buried! LOL!

No kidding. Between over-hyped holidays of all sorts
and the ever-increasing number of family birthdays/anniversaries/
etc. I start to feel like I'm *always* rushing to take care of
one gift-giving event or another, even though I don't think I
go overboard for any particular event personally. It just
creates a *feeling* that there's never just a normal day
without a big to-do brewing.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Not here. There's too much money to be made on Valentine's Day so that
will be the next "big season" in the stores.

Pat P wrote:
Not to mention the easter eggs/bunnies which wiull be bombarding us before
Christmas is decently buried! LOL!

--
Brenda
Bilge Queen of Puzzle Pirates

Karen C - California wrote:
val189 wrote:


Last year I checked my received cards - only 12% mentioned the word
Christmas. What the heck is everyone afraid of? Looking like
believers?


The Bush family holiday cards show the dogs and cat playing in the snow
in front of the White House, and don't say a thing about "Christmas",
which has his Christian/conservative supporters annoyed. One of them
said something to the effect that "he claims he's a born again
Christian, but he sure doesn't act like it."

I just happened to watch a little of Fox & Friends yesterday. E.D.Hill
said her husband had received the White House Christmas Card and,
although it didn't say "Merry Christmas", it did have a scriptual quote
on it.

Since I am unlikely to receive one, I can't vouch for the authenticity
of this (VBG).

Gillian

"Gill Murray" wrote in message
news:nKimf.3662$OK6.3091@trnddc03...


Karen C - California wrote:
val189 wrote:


Last year I checked my received cards - only 12% mentioned the word
Christmas. What the heck is everyone afraid of? Looking like
believers?


The Bush family holiday cards show the dogs and cat playing in the snow
in front of the White House, and don't say a thing about "Christmas",
which has his Christian/conservative supporters annoyed. One of them
said something to the effect that "he claims he's a born again Christian,
but he sure doesn't act like it."

I just happened to watch a little of Fox & Friends yesterday. E.D.Hill
said her husband had received the White House Christmas Card and, although
it didn't say "Merry Christmas", it did have a scriptual quote on it.

Since I am unlikely to receive one, I can't vouch for the authenticity of
this (VBG).

Gillian

Well. there`s no harm in wishing non-religious people "Happy Christmas", is
there? It`s long become a season of jollity and generosity whatever your
beliefs, or lack of them. I`m not upset if people send me religious
Christmas cards - it`s a lovely story, after all. I do try to send
religiously inclined cards to people I know are believers and would
appreciate them - on the other hand I usually send a comic one to our friend
who happens to be a vicar with a great sense of humour. He loves them!

Pat P

Pat P wrote:

Well. there`s no harm in wishing non-religious people "Happy Christmas", is
there?

I think it very much depends on context. In a void,
no, there's no harm. In a situation where said non-Christian
is in a society where Christmas is shoved down his throat
24/7, he encounters a lot of hostility toward non-Christians,
and he's had to struggle to get the day off work to celebrate
his own holiday because his boss doesn't think it's important
enough to warrant missing work, to have the friend who knows
darned well he isn't Christian wish him a "Happy Christmas"
(never having wished him well on his holiday), well, sometimes
it's just the straw that broke the camel's back. I think
with all the excess and the fussing, we've actually created
a situation where the tensions are heightened in the US,
especially in some areas. Intolerance breeds more of the
same, and in many ways we haven't been a very tolerant
society lately (and we've got groups actively and vocally
pushing for less tolerance, so it's not like non-Christians
are just being overly sensitive). It doesn't surprise me,
therefore, when non-Christians get testy over the whole
thing, and it makes me inclined to be extra cautious
and sensitive about the issue.

Best wishes,
Ericka

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...
Pat P wrote:

Well. there`s no harm in wishing non-religious people "Happy Christmas",
is there?

I think it very much depends on context. In a void,
no, there's no harm. In a situation where said non-Christian
is in a society where Christmas is shoved down his throat
24/7, he encounters a lot of hostility toward non-Christians,
and he's had to struggle to get the day off work to celebrate
his own holiday because his boss doesn't think it's important
enough to warrant missing work, to have the friend who knows
darned well he isn't Christian wish him a "Happy Christmas"
(never having wished him well on his holiday), well, sometimes
it's just the straw that broke the camel's back. I think
with all the excess and the fussing, we've actually created
a situation where the tensions are heightened in the US,
especially in some areas. Intolerance breeds more of the
same, and in many ways we haven't been a very tolerant
society lately (and we've got groups actively and vocally
pushing for less tolerance, so it's not like non-Christians
are just being overly sensitive). It doesn't surprise me,
therefore, when non-Christians get testy over the whole
thing, and it makes me inclined to be extra cautious
and sensitive about the issue.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Then I`d say "Tough! The problem is yours ! Get over it!" (not YOUR`S - but
THEIR`S ;-)) I`m heartily sick of pussy-footing around oversensitive
minorities in our own country. Although to be fair it`s not really so much
them who complain but the over-the-top do-gooding politically correct
brigade who are mostly to blame! I`m not a Christian so to me "Happy
Christmas" is just the same as saying "Happy Holidays". Some people think
too much and look for problems where hardly any actually exist.

If there is no problem - well - they just have to invent one!

Pat P

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
[snipped lots of good stuff] . . . It doesn't surprise me,
therefore, when non-Christians get testy over the whole
thing, and it makes me inclined to be extra cautious
and sensitive about the issue.

But where I'm hearing the loudest screaming is from Christians who state
that their Christmas is being stolen. That it (Christmas) is as
American as baseball and apple pie. That Christ is being removed from
Christmas. It's almost as if (and I can't pretend to speak for them . .
.. just an observation) they're frightened of losing another bit of
Americana. As if their country is being hijacked. Some Christians are
screaming loudly about this. They don't seem able to separate the two
(a religious holiday versus an American melting pot).

Dianne
--
"The Journal of Needlework" - The E-zine for All Needleworkers
http://journal.heritageshoppe.com

"Dianne Lewandowski" wrote in message
...
Ericka Kammerer wrote:
[snipped lots of good stuff] . . . It doesn't surprise me,
therefore, when non-Christians get testy over the whole
thing, and it makes me inclined to be extra cautious
and sensitive about the issue.

But where I'm hearing the loudest screaming is from Christians who state
that their Christmas is being stolen. That it (Christmas) is as American
as baseball and apple pie. That Christ is being removed from Christmas.
It's almost as if (and I can't pretend to speak for them . . . just an
observation) they're frightened of losing another bit of Americana. As if
their country is being hijacked. Some Christians are screaming loudly
about this. They don't seem able to separate the two (a religious holiday
versus an American melting pot).

Dianne
--
"The Journal of Needlework" - The E-zine for All Needleworkers
http://journal.heritageshoppe.com

Obviously the same reaction (Get over it!) holds good for them as well.
There are far more important things that members with both ( or any) points
of view could be doing or worrying about! The "Christmas Spirit, in whatever
form is good for any faith - or none!

Pat P

On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 15:19:03 -0500, Ericka Kammerer
wrote:

Pat P wrote:

Well. there`s no harm in wishing non-religious people "Happy Christmas", is
there?

I think it very much depends on context. In a void,
no, there's no harm. In a situation where said non-Christian
is in a society where Christmas is shoved down his throat
24/7, he encounters a lot of hostility toward non-Christians,
and he's had to struggle to get the day off work to celebrate
his own holiday because his boss doesn't think it's important
enough to warrant missing work, to have the friend who knows
darned well he isn't Christian wish him a "Happy Christmas"
(never having wished him well on his holiday), well, sometimes
it's just the straw that broke the camel's back. I think
with all the excess and the fussing, we've actually created
a situation where the tensions are heightened in the US,
especially in some areas. Intolerance breeds more of the
same, and in many ways we haven't been a very tolerant
society lately (and we've got groups actively and vocally
pushing for less tolerance, so it's not like non-Christians
are just being overly sensitive). It doesn't surprise me,
therefore, when non-Christians get testy over the whole
thing, and it makes me inclined to be extra cautious
and sensitive about the issue.

Best wishes,
Ericka

I think you have that exactly right Ericka - I have non Christian
friends (I don't mean agnostics like myself) who are heartily sick of
being expected to enjoy being included in Christmas festivities but
are not expected to mention their own high days and holidays, far less
actually take a Christian normal working day off to celebrate it.