A crafts forum. CraftBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » CraftBanter forum » Craft related newsgroups » Glass
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Monitoring electricity consumption of a device?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old September 14th 05, 03:19 AM
Ron Parker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 13 Sep 2005 18:43:25 -0700, wrote:
cycles, I need a meter that will work with a phase-angle SCR. I'm not
familiar with any device that can monitor my usage through an SCR. With
an inductive ammeter, one would need a constant graph since current
draw flucuates wildly from moment to moment. Any usenet folks out there
have any ideas?


Why won't a regular watthour meter like the electric company uses work?

And if it won't work, aren't you concerned that the electric company will
come after you for using power in a way they can't measure?

Ads
  #2  
Old September 14th 05, 03:26 AM
Mike Firth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Monitoring electricity consumption of a device?

Go to www.sensors.com and ask the same question.
You will almost certainly have to use a data collection system sampling at
a fairly high rate. I don't believe there exists any simple meter that will
integrate the usage, so you need the digital equivalent of a continuous
chart that will do the integration for you. Of course, the power company's
meter does that, if you want to spend the money and record the readings by
hand.

--
Mike Firth
No more levees
Bury old Orleans
Raise New Orleans up if it is worth saving
--
wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm building what I believe will be a super high efficiency electric
furnace utilizing engineering technology overlooked by studio glass
makers. But I need a method to prove my energy usage so I can present
my findings. Besides thorough documentation of my charge and idle
cycles, I need a meter that will work with a phase-angle SCR. I'm not
familiar with any device that can monitor my usage through an SCR. With
an inductive ammeter, one would need a constant graph since current
draw flucuates wildly from moment to moment. Any usenet folks out there
have any ideas?



  #3  
Old September 14th 05, 03:39 AM
Moonraker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

So, does this overlooked technology make Ohm's law obsolete? Why can't you
calculate the energy usage? You know the resistance of the heating elements
and the amount of time you need to achieve the temperature rise in the
furnace and the line-in voltage. What else do you need?



wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm building what I believe will be a super high efficiency electric
furnace utilizing engineering technology overlooked by studio glass
makers. But I need a method to prove my energy usage so I can present
my findings. Besides thorough documentation of my charge and idle
cycles, I need a meter that will work with a phase-angle SCR. I'm not
familiar with any device that can monitor my usage through an SCR. With
an inductive ammeter, one would need a constant graph since current
draw flucuates wildly from moment to moment. Any usenet folks out there
have any ideas?



  #5  
Old September 14th 05, 05:31 AM
nJb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Moonraker wrote:

So, does this overlooked technology make Ohm's law obsolete? Why can't you
calculate the energy usage? You know the resistance of the heating elements
and the amount of time you need to achieve the temperature rise in the
furnace and the line-in voltage. What else do you need?


Ohm's law works fine but he's only firing at a fraction of the time once
he's up to temp. This varies by the surrounding conditions. A KWH meter
will tell the real story. My kiln draws 56A when it's on full bore, but
seldom is it doing that.

On most controllers we can see what percentage of full power is being
applied. He could see what percentage each furnace uses to maintain a
given temp (2100F?) at like ambient conditions.

--
Jack

Plonked by Native American

bobo1148atxmissiondotcom


http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/xmissionbobo/
  #6  
Old September 14th 05, 03:11 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

A couple things: My controller is always set at 100% output signal;
it's the P.A. scr that varies the output. If you put an ammeter on it,
even while the furnace is at equilibrium and totally thermally stable
and idleing, the current jumps all over the place, and that's normal. I
do think a regular watt hour meter is what's required but like Mike
Firth says I'm not sure if I can get one that will work only on the
furnace circuit and also be compatible with the SCR. Yes of course the
power company meters the usage, and I'm certainly not trying to cheat
them. But it is noteworthy that at my other studio in Hawaii the meter
always had trouble and they never really figured it out.

Jack my house in Hawaii and coldwork shop is off the grid (solar and
bio-diesel) but my former hotshop over there never was. Here in Oregon
I have grid power. Also

The technology I'm using has to do with insulation, not the energy
input. The reason I need to monitor the power is that I don't believe
surface area and heat loss equations are going to provide a good real
world analysis. Plus, I suck at math. I have a way to vary these
insulation qualities while keeping the other parameters (mostly) the
same. So if I can accurately measure usage...

  #7  
Old September 14th 05, 05:51 PM
Javahut
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Kilowatt Hour meter, yup, believe it or not, I have one. But I don't know
if it will work for your application.
I was in a building that we shared the electric bill, thought I was getting
screwed over, so I put a sub meter on the pieces of equipment that was
running so I could tell what was "my share".
No longer need it, still have the meter, you would have to get your own hook
ups for it, but I know it was pricey, we can negotiate if you need it,
anyone.



"nJb" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I'm building what I believe will be a super high efficiency electric
furnace utilizing engineering technology overlooked by studio glass
makers. But I need a method to prove my energy usage so I can present
my findings. Besides thorough documentation of my charge and idle
cycles, I need a meter that will work with a phase-angle SCR. I'm not
familiar with any device that can monitor my usage through an SCR. With
an inductive ammeter, one would need a constant graph since current
draw flucuates wildly from moment to moment. Any usenet folks out there
have any ideas?


Unless I'm missing something, Kilowatt Hours over a given time will give
you the bottom line. Buy a KWH meter. If you're correct, it will pay for
itself. IIRC, you are off the grid? If your place was ever on the grid,
"borrow" their meter for a while.

--
Jack

Plonked by Native American

bobo1148atxmissiondotcom


http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/xmissionbobo/



  #8  
Old September 14th 05, 08:48 PM
Mike Firth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Moonraker
Only part of each cycle is being used in a phase shift SCR controller.
http://users.ticnet.com/mikefirth/control.htm#PHASE
If he were using zero crossing trigger SCR or SSR, and they were fired not
very often, then simply adding a small analog clock to the circuit would let
your method work- the number of minutes the clock was on gives a good idea
of the actual power used (% of day) [or a digital timer with electronic
on-off. I have analog, I don't own a digital timer.]

Jfuse
If you are interested in the details, you are going to need to do data
collection on a millisecond by millisecond basis, which is considered slow
in the Sensors world. And you are going to want to feed it into a file so
it can be loaded into Excel for averaging, totalling and graphing.
However, I do not follow what you say about your controller being at 100%
output. Something has to be controlling the Phase Angle SCR and that is
usually called a controller.

--
Mike Firth
No more levees
Bury old Orleans
Raise New Orleans up if it is worth saving
--
"Moonraker" wrote in message
...
So, does this overlooked technology make Ohm's law obsolete? Why can't
you
calculate the energy usage? You know the resistance of the heating
elements
and the amount of time you need to achieve the temperature rise in the
furnace and the line-in voltage. What else do you need?



wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm building what I believe will be a super high efficiency electric
furnace utilizing engineering technology overlooked by studio glass
makers. But I need a method to prove my energy usage so I can present
my findings. Besides thorough documentation of my charge and idle
cycles, I need a meter that will work with a phase-angle SCR. I'm not
familiar with any device that can monitor my usage through an SCR. With
an inductive ammeter, one would need a constant graph since current
draw flucuates wildly from moment to moment. Any usenet folks out there
have any ideas?





  #9  
Old September 14th 05, 08:53 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Sure, how much did it cost? I'll try and find out if it will work with
the scr, or what modifications might be needed. What can you tell me
about brand, specs, etc.

  #10  
Old September 14th 05, 10:25 PM
Javahut
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I have had it, un-hooked and on the shelf, for 15 years, looks new and
worked fine when it was attached.

You have to bear with me a bit here, because a friend that is an electrical
engineer hooked it up for me.
I had a 440 air conditioning unit, the other tenant also had one, they were
connected to the same meter, we wanted to know if the bill was being split
according to use or just split 50/50. Enough of that, there were 3 coil
like donuts that encircled the hot wires and produced a reading.

I will attempt to get a model number and details for you, if this address is
your email, I'll send a note.


wrote in message
oups.com...
Sure, how much did it cost? I'll try and find out if it will work with
the scr, or what modifications might be needed. What can you tell me
about brand, specs, etc.



 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hurricane Charley Fred Needlework 270 September 5th 04 07:24 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CraftBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.