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#21
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If you bead-makers INSIST on discussing this drivel, please remove
rec.crafts.glass from your headings!!!! "Lara" wrote in message ... I have to totally agree with you Kandice. I do not feel comfortable over at Art Glass Forum. I haven't been in a while, but the people that run that seem very negative and just want to complain about WC and other sites. Also, I think, the won't allow certain people from WC to post because they are not allowed to post at WC because of inappropriate behavior in the past. It is all a mess. SIGH, OK, here I am complaining about the compalining, I'm not much better. I don't find ISGB elitist, but lately just super slow with very little postings. Lara -- Check out my eBay auctions under user ID: lutrick Or click on the link: http://snipurl.com/8fa3 "Kandice Seeber" wrote in message ... Thank you for pointing this out, Kalera - the WC situation has been bothering me for some time - especially since they still actively ask for "donations" from the members to "keep the site going", because it's a "valuable resource for artists" and it costs a lot to keep the site operational (beg, beg, beg). That would be fine if they weren't selling advertisements and vendor forums for profit, and censoring everyone's posts for "offending links". I think it's unethical to do both those things. WC claims to be doing everyone a favor by being available. For Profit websites aren't doing favors - they are in business to make money. That in and of itself is fine, as long as they don't masquerade as a community service. I don't like the censorship, and haven't for a long time, because it's biased based on the whim of the moderation team. They keep telling us that they don't play favorites, but in fact, they do. Evidence of that is pretty clear, all over the Glass Art boards. I wouldn't buy advertising there. I still read the boards and post on a rare occasion, because like it or not, that is the place everyone goes to trade information. But I have to tell you - if the attitude of the guys who run Art Glass Forum were better, I would be over there in a flash. But I find them to be almost as one sided as the people at WC. As a female beadmaker, I really have never felt welcome there. And ISGB is fine, but somewhat elitist, so I am almost afraid to post there. As it sits, I am somewhat dissatisfied with many of the forums out there - so maybe it's just me. LOL -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net I have recently found out that Wetcanvas is actively censoring certain links (to other forums) out of private messages between users... and this really upsets me. I personally have made furthering accurate information about lampworking one of my core values, and it breaks my heart to see a popular company that actively seeks to "protect" its customers from other sources of information. WC is now a for-profit company, and profit has for some time gradually been rising over the sharing of information as their primary goal. I can't talk about this freely on WC, so I am talking about it freely here, since I don't run the risk of censorship and this is a completely uninvolved place. I'm really, really upset about this; although I had some time ago made the decision not to post any tutorials to WC (I am not giving a profit-seeking company my hard work for free) and have been wavering on the decision of whether to advertise with them. Well, that decision is made; my dollars go elsewhere. I spend over $2000/yr on advertising and not a penny of it will go to them... meanwhile, I WILL be contributing, financially and otherwise, to not-for-profit forums like www.Artglassforum.com and www.ISGB.org, not to mention putting my body and voice in places where I think I can make a difference, like here. -- -Kalera http://www.beadwife.com |
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#22
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Kalera has the right to post her opinions on this or ANY public news group
as do you. To post a counter-point is one thing, but your reply to her was clearly a personal attack and totally uncalled for. Perhaps you should exercise your own rights by simply not clicking on this discussion and reading it, if it bothers you so. -- Oh, boo hoo. Geez. It's "their" website/forum. They can do what they want, including making a friggin' profit, banning fools, and monitoring content! One nice thing about the internet is that there is no shortage of domain names and web servers. You don't like somebody's website or forum? Start yer own with yer own precious "core values", already. Let's see how long YOU remain non-profit and altruistic. You need to get a life if some forum has you "really, really upset". It's a simple solution: Just don't go there any more. "Kalera Stratton" wrote in message ... I have recently found out that Wetcanvas is actively censoring certain links (to other forums) out of private messages between users... and this really upsets me. I personally have made furthering accurate information about lampworking one of my core values, and it breaks my heart to see a popular company that actively seeks to "protect" its customers from other sources of information. WC is now a for-profit company, and profit has for some time gradually been rising over the sharing of information as their primary goal. I can't talk about this freely on WC, so I am talking about it freely here, since I don't run the risk of censorship and this is a completely uninvolved place. I'm really, really upset about this; although I had some time ago made the decision not to post any tutorials to WC (I am not giving a profit-seeking company my hard work for free) and have been wavering on the decision of whether to advertise with them. Well, that decision is made; my dollars go elsewhere. I spend over $2000/yr on advertising and not a penny of it will go to them... meanwhile, I WILL be contributing, financially and otherwise, to not-for-profit forums like www.Artglassforum.com and www.ISGB.org, not to mention putting my body and voice in places where I think I can make a difference, like here. -- -Kalera http://www.beadwife.com |
#23
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Thanks Kalera,
I appreciate this information as well as your opinions. Although I'm a member of WC I do not post over there, but mainly because of time. I agree with you that a private message between users should be just that. Private. If they don't want their users to promote or share other resources then they should remove the private messaging option from their forum, rather than to violate their own policy as it suits them. -- Dawn / Art Insomnia ~"WTF...do you smell hair burning?"~ http://snipurl.com/Art_Insomnia http://snipurl.com/my_ebay "Kalera Stratton" wrote in message ... I have recently found out that Wetcanvas is actively censoring certain links (to other forums) out of private messages between users... and this really upsets me. I personally have made furthering accurate information about lampworking one of my core values, and it breaks my heart to see a popular company that actively seeks to "protect" its customers from other sources of information. WC is now a for-profit company, and profit has for some time gradually been rising over the sharing of information as their primary goal. I can't talk about this freely on WC, so I am talking about it freely here, since I don't run the risk of censorship and this is a completely uninvolved place. I'm really, really upset about this; although I had some time ago made the decision not to post any tutorials to WC (I am not giving a profit-seeking company my hard work for free) and have been wavering on the decision of whether to advertise with them. Well, that decision is made; my dollars go elsewhere. I spend over $2000/yr on advertising and not a penny of it will go to them... meanwhile, I WILL be contributing, financially and otherwise, to not-for-profit forums like www.Artglassforum.com and www.ISGB.org, not to mention putting my body and voice in places where I think I can make a difference, like here. -- -Kalera http://www.beadwife.com |
#24
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Kandice,
One thing from your post just floors me....that you said ISBG is fine, but somewhat elitist. I feel the exact same way and that's one reason I've never even bothered to subscribe although I feel if I stay in this art it's valuable to do so. I'm with Kalera on WC. For a while things have steadily gotten worse although I think it's still a good site for sharing. I wouldn't consider putting on any tutorials for free. If I want to do that then I'll post it on my site and keep it there for free or charge as I see fit. I sure wouldn't keep putting money in their pockets since they are lined now by patrons and advertisers. WC is for profit and they have so many stupid rules it's just a pain considering what you can or can't say. That's why I've always felt so free here. I'm not around much lately since my life if upside down but hopefully it will get better soon. |
#25
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Kalera -- I have long resisted joining Wet-Canvas... the only time I
ever seemed to hear about it was when something "bad" was going on, there was a dispute (including the no links thing.. which has been going on a long time)... and people sniping at each other, bad feelings, hurt feelings. RARELY - someone would post about some "gem" of a great bead -- but beyond that -- it did not call to me. I agree - go with the "non-profits" - and leave the profit makers to their own devices... I wouldn't give them a moment's satisfaction of posting there anymore... I WILL be contributing, financially and otherwise, to not-for-profit forums like www.Artglassforum.com and www.ISGB.org, not to mention putting my body and voice in places where I think I can make a difference, like here. -- -Kalera http://www.beadwife.com |
#26
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You know, moonraker, on rec.crafts.glass, we have learned to ignore your
brutish behavior - I usually just stop reading a thread once you come on. Seems like a reasonable discussion to me. I wonder how many people just skip out on rec.crafts.glass after encountering your "contributions"? -- Mike Firth Hot Glass Bits Furnace Working Website http://users.ticnet.com/mikefirth/hotbit47.htm Latest notes "Moonraker" wrote in message .. . If you bead-makers INSIST on discussing this drivel, please remove rec.crafts.glass from your headings!!!! |
#27
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"Mike Firth" wrote in message ... You know, moonraker, on rec.crafts.glass, we have learned to ignore your brutish behavior - I usually just stop reading a thread once you come on. Seems like a reasonable discussion to me. I wonder how many people just skip out on rec.crafts.glass after encountering your "contributions"? Who is "we" that has learned? And I do the same thing when I read your self serving posts .. so your not alone in your action, and it is up to us if we want to or not. So what's your point? |
#28
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I agree with you, personal messages should not be censored, but I haven't
yet experienced any of the censoring on the wearable arts board. What I don't agree with, is the people who say you shouldn't go there because it's a "for profit" organisation. The person who started the site had a great idea. Somewhere for ALL artists to go. How cool is that? The massive cost of the servers and the bandwidth and the sheer time it would take to set up and programme those forums is serious money! I think it's great that they sell advertising rather than just go bust and disappear. I bet that the person running it doesn't make any decent amount of money from that website. Every page anyone views on wet canvas costs someone money. Why shouldn't they either charge the user or sell advertising to pay for those costs? We also know the ridiculous costs of just keeping an artist website running. Multiply that cost by thousands. (Not an attack on Kalera, just fed up of people thinking that they should get everything for free). Charlie. "Kalera Stratton" wrote in message ... I have recently found out that Wetcanvas is actively censoring certain links (to other forums) out of private messages between users... and this really upsets me. I personally have made furthering accurate information about lampworking one of my core values, and it breaks my heart to see a popular company that actively seeks to "protect" its customers from other sources of information. WC is now a for-profit company, and profit has for some time gradually been rising over the sharing of information as their primary goal. I can't talk about this freely on WC, so I am talking about it freely here, since I don't run the risk of censorship and this is a completely uninvolved place. I'm really, really upset about this; although I had some time ago made the decision not to post any tutorials to WC (I am not giving a profit-seeking company my hard work for free) and have been wavering on the decision of whether to advertise with them. Well, that decision is made; my dollars go elsewhere. I spend over $2000/yr on advertising and not a penny of it will go to them... meanwhile, I WILL be contributing, financially and otherwise, to not-for-profit forums like www.Artglassforum.com and www.ISGB.org, not to mention putting my body and voice in places where I think I can make a difference, like here. -- -Kalera http://www.beadwife.com |
#29
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I have to totally agree with you Kandice. I do not feel comfortable over at
Art Glass Forum. I haven't been in a while, but the people that run that seem very negative and just want to complain about WC and other sites. Also, I think, the won't allow certain people from WC to post because they are not allowed to post at WC because of inappropriate behavior in the past. It is all a mess. SIGH, OK, here I am complaining about the compalining, I'm not much better. I don't find ISGB elitist, but lately just super slow with very little postings. Lara -- Check out my eBay auctions under user ID: lutrick Or click on the link: http://snipurl.com/8fa3 "Kandice Seeber" wrote in message ... Thank you for pointing this out, Kalera - the WC situation has been bothering me for some time - especially since they still actively ask for "donations" from the members to "keep the site going", because it's a "valuable resource for artists" and it costs a lot to keep the site operational (beg, beg, beg). That would be fine if they weren't selling advertisements and vendor forums for profit, and censoring everyone's posts for "offending links". I think it's unethical to do both those things. WC claims to be doing everyone a favor by being available. For Profit websites aren't doing favors - they are in business to make money. That in and of itself is fine, as long as they don't masquerade as a community service. I don't like the censorship, and haven't for a long time, because it's biased based on the whim of the moderation team. They keep telling us that they don't play favorites, but in fact, they do. Evidence of that is pretty clear, all over the Glass Art boards. I wouldn't buy advertising there. I still read the boards and post on a rare occasion, because like it or not, that is the place everyone goes to trade information. But I have to tell you - if the attitude of the guys who run Art Glass Forum were better, I would be over there in a flash. But I find them to be almost as one sided as the people at WC. As a female beadmaker, I really have never felt welcome there. And ISGB is fine, but somewhat elitist, so I am almost afraid to post there. As it sits, I am somewhat dissatisfied with many of the forums out there - so maybe it's just me. LOL -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net I have recently found out that Wetcanvas is actively censoring certain links (to other forums) out of private messages between users... and this really upsets me. I personally have made furthering accurate information about lampworking one of my core values, and it breaks my heart to see a popular company that actively seeks to "protect" its customers from other sources of information. WC is now a for-profit company, and profit has for some time gradually been rising over the sharing of information as their primary goal. I can't talk about this freely on WC, so I am talking about it freely here, since I don't run the risk of censorship and this is a completely uninvolved place. I'm really, really upset about this; although I had some time ago made the decision not to post any tutorials to WC (I am not giving a profit-seeking company my hard work for free) and have been wavering on the decision of whether to advertise with them. Well, that decision is made; my dollars go elsewhere. I spend over $2000/yr on advertising and not a penny of it will go to them... meanwhile, I WILL be contributing, financially and otherwise, to not-for-profit forums like www.Artglassforum.com and www.ISGB.org, not to mention putting my body and voice in places where I think I can make a difference, like here. -- -Kalera http://www.beadwife.com |
#30
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"Mike Firth" wrote in message ... You know, moonraker, on rec.crafts.glass, we have learned to ignore your brutish behavior - I usually just stop reading a thread once you come on. Seems like a reasonable discussion to me. I wonder how many people just skip out on rec.crafts.glass after encountering your "contributions"? You can kiss my ass. How's that for brutish? |
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