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Solder properties? Irons?



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 17th 04, 04:46 PM
searobin8356
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Default Solder properties? Irons?

Hi all, I'm new to stained glass. Ok, that probably lost 90% of you but
sometimes you just have to be new. I've been lurking, and rarely, posting
here for the past month or so. I am considering working with lead free
solder and am looking for a site that lists solder properties. What I want
to know is what percentage of what metals it contains and the melting
points. Any suggestions of where I could find something like this?

Anyone here using a lead free suitable for the copper foil method of stained
glass work?
Since melting points are higher than leaded solder, what iron/type of flux
do you like to use with it?
Will it work nicely with black patina? Look good on it's own?

Yes, I am taking a class and can ask the instructor (a 60/40 person); but,
as with most things, I think there is more than one approach that will work.
Opinions please?


Email is munged, remove the "eels" if you wish to use it.


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  #2  
Old May 17th 04, 05:16 PM
Moonraker
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Default


"searobin8356" wrote in message
.com...
Hi all, I'm new to stained glass. Ok, that probably lost 90% of you but
sometimes you just have to be new. I've been lurking, and rarely, posting
here for the past month or so.


Hooray! A newbie lurker that isn't an argumentative troll. Welcome. ;)

I am considering working with lead free
solder and am looking for a site that lists solder properties. What I

want
to know is what percentage of what metals it contains and the melting
points. Any suggestions of where I could find something like this?


Probably everything you'd ever want to know about solder is at this link,
including the alloys, fluxes, and melting points:

http://canfieldmetals.com/stained.htm


Anyone here using a lead free suitable for the copper foil method of

stained
glass work?


Not me. But my recent blood lead level tests may indicate that I have to go
to such a solder, and soon.

Since melting points are higher than leaded solder, what iron/type of flux
do you like to use with it?


The melting points of the lead free are only 50* or so higher than the
50/50. I doubt you'd ever know which you were working with unless you
looked at the spool's label. Very experienced people probably can tell by
how the solder melts and flows.


Will it work nicely with black patina? Look good on it's own?


I dunno about patina-ing lead-free solder. It might work...or not.
Experimenting is the only way to know if you'll like it. Did you ask your
retailer about what to use?


Yes, I am taking a class and can ask the instructor (a 60/40 person);

but,
as with most things, I think there is more than one approach that will

work.
Opinions please?


60/40 person? What sort of a perversion is THAT? Heh, heh.



  #3  
Old May 17th 04, 09:04 PM
searobin8356
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Default


"Moonraker" wrote in message ...

"searobin8356" wrote in message
Hi all, I'm new to stained glass.


Hooray! A newbie lurker that isn't an argumentative troll. Welcome.

;)

Lol, I can't think of a faster way to get totally roasted by an established
NG. But, I can't promise to never argue

I am considering working with lead free
solder and am looking for a site that lists solder properties. What I

want
to know is what percentage of what metals it contains and the melting
points. Any suggestions of where I could find something like this?


Probably everything you'd ever want to know about solder is at this link,
including the alloys, fluxes, and melting points:

http://canfieldmetals.com/stained.htm


Thanks, that certainly covers Canfield and they seem to be the most popular
and available manufacturer.

Anyone here using a lead free suitable for the copper foil method of

stained
glass work?


Not me. But my recent blood lead level tests may indicate that I have to

go
to such a solder, and soon.


If lead free solder is not significantly more difficult to work with then
why not? Prohibitive cost and/or inferior results is what comes to mind.

Looking at the Canfield site...
Canfield Silvergleem is certainly in the upper realm of cost for that bit of
silver it has. They also offer Pewter, which is less expensive but has a
duller grey finish to it from what I have read. Maybe there is not enough
market share in stained glass for competition to occur and bring in some new
alternatives. I wonder about stepping out and using a lead free marketed
towards mass production of some kind, of course, it may not be available to
a retail buyer.

BTW, any adults getting a serum lead screen should also get the Zinc
Protoporphyrin test as well, as you probably know.
For those that don't:
http://www.labtestsonline.org/unders.../zpp/test.html

Since melting points are higher than leaded solder, what iron/type of

flux
do you like to use with it?


The melting points of the lead free are only 50* or so higher than the
50/50. I doubt you'd ever know which you were working with unless you
looked at the spool's label. Very experienced people probably can tell by
how the solder melts and flows.


I was hoping that if I just go ahead and start out using it as a newbie that
it won't seem anymore difficult to use than the leaded type. My concern was
that with the higher temps and the slowness of being new, I might "create"
some broken glass until I work up a bit of experience with it.

Will it work nicely with black patina? Look good on it's own?


I dunno about patina-ing lead-free solder. It might work...or not.
Experimenting is the only way to know if you'll like it. Did you ask your
retailer about what to use?


I'll ask about lthe lead free this week. I see them suggesting/selling
60/40 by Canfield to others in this class.

Yes, I am taking a class and can ask the instructor (a 60/40 person);

but,
as with most things, I think there is more than one approach that will

work.
Opinions please?


60/40 person? What sort of a perversion is THAT? Heh, heh.


Not sure, but they seem to enjoy it and perhaps there is a video available
;^)

Thanks for the info.


  #4  
Old May 17th 04, 10:59 PM
Moonraker
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"searobin8356" wrote in message
.com...


If lead free solder is not significantly more difficult to work with then
why not? Prohibitive cost and/or inferior results is what comes to mind.


It's probably just a case of me being stuck in my ways....and now I get to
be stuck with IV chelation therapy a whole bunch of times as payback. I
probably use less solder per dollar of sales than anyone in this group. I
don't really care what the solder costs...just that it will do what I need.
I need to grab up a roll and give it a try. I'll stop by Homer Depo's and
see if they have any. My local retailer isn't "local" unless I wanna drive
25 miles.


BTW, any adults getting a serum lead screen should also get the Zinc
Protoporphyrin test as well, as you probably know.
For those that don't:
http://www.labtestsonline.org/unders.../zpp/test.html


I didn't know about it. Thanks. The chelation isn't heavy metals
specific, it'll grab onto the zinc, cadmium, arsenic, and whatever else the
SO has been feeding me. ;) Have you been watching the Lynn Turner trial
on Court TV? She just got convicted of poisoning her former husband with
anti-freeze. While that trial was going on, I did a repair on the front
door of one of Cobb Co.'s law enforcement officals' homes. He was telling
me that they had inquiries from some county in KY because Lynn Turner's
grandmother had died under similar circumstances about 9 years ago. Guess
who the heiress was?


60/40 person? What sort of a perversion is THAT? Heh, heh.


Not sure, but they seem to enjoy it and perhaps there is a video available
;^)


Maybe that's why the Hutmeister is having problems with his production of
training tapes. He was watching the 60/40 duo perform and got the remote
all sticky. ;)


Thanks for the info.


You be welcome.


  #5  
Old May 18th 04, 05:03 PM
searobin8356
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Moonraker" wrote in message "searobin8356"

wrote in message

The chelation isn't heavy metals
specific, it'll grab onto the zinc, cadmium, arsenic, and whatever else

the
SO has been feeding me. ;)


Clearly, your lead exposure was significant and possibly included some
physiological symptoms as well.
Maybe your SO needs a little break from the kitchen?
I wish you well with the chelation.
This is an article on Occupational Lead Poisoning a couple of docs wrote a
few years back, it is geared towards medical professionals, but still has
some good info in it.
http://www.aafp.org/afp/980215ap/stauding.html

Have you been watching the Lynn Turner trial
on Court TV? She just got convicted of poisoning her former husband with
anti-freeze. While that trial was going on, I did a repair on the front
door of one of Cobb Co.'s law enforcement officals' homes. He was telling
me that they had inquiries from some county in KY because Lynn Turner's
grandmother had died under similar circumstances about 9 years ago.

Guess
who the heiress was?


Oh my. Grandma, hubby, and boyfriend...scary stuff. Maybe my relatives
aren't so bad after all.

Maybe that's why the Hutmeister is having problems with his production of
training tapes. He was watching the 60/40 duo perform and got the remote
all sticky. ;)


Thanks, I'll never think of 60/40 in the same way again!

My retail shop says they haven't found a lead free they really like. They
have the Silvergleem by Canfield, I think $25 per lb. it has 4% Ag. They
have a less expensive one but are not happy with it at all.

I did a bunch of web browsing and hope to find a lead free that is workable,
has nice finish and cheaper than $25 lb.
I just ordered a couple of pounds of lead free silver bearing solders to
experiment with from Johnson Mfg. I got IA-423 and 425 and a sample of
flux. Should have it in a few days, but no chance to try it out for awhile
as I need to do a bit of travel. The seller admits they won't follow the
iron quite as nicely as the 60/40 but reports they are nice looking solder
and that I will get used to it. Ha, I am not even used to the 60/40
yet--I'll report back after I get a chance to play with it. I did finish a
14" Victorian panel as my first project and am actually pretty happy with it
:-)
Properties for these solders are at the site below if anyone has interest
http://www.johnsonmfg.com/temp/solder.htm



  #6  
Old May 21st 04, 01:20 AM
Dennis Brady
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Default

You're chasing an impossible dream. The quickest way to convince
someone to continue using lead, is make them work with lead-free
solder.
  #7  
Old May 21st 04, 03:51 AM
Moonraker
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Dennis Brady" wrote in message
om...
You're chasing an impossible dream. The quickest way to convince
someone to continue using lead, is make them work with lead-free
solder.


Alternatively, the quickest way to get someone to work with lead-free
solder is to have a blood lead level test come back 50 when 10 is
"normal".


  #8  
Old May 21st 04, 07:44 PM
Dennis Brady
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Default

I seriously doubt such a reading came from stained glass work unless
you were fool enough to be eating the lead instead of soldering it.

Check the ingredients in "lead-free" solder and you'll find many
contain cadmium and mercury - both enormously more serious than lead.
The lead-free advocacy movement has nothing to do with health and
safety - everything to do with economics. The economic improvement of
those companies wanting to sell lead-free alternatives.

Consider it a move to improved efficiency. Instead of poisoning
yourself slowly with lead, you can get the job done quick and slick
with cadmium and mercury.
  #9  
Old May 21st 04, 07:48 PM
Charles Spitzer
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Default

as was pointed out to me in a different forum:

http://www.acnem.org/journal/15-2_de...on_of_lead.htm

http://www.epa.nsw.gov.au/leadsafe/leadinf3.htm

which state that some lead can be absorbed through the skin.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

"Dennis Brady" wrote in message
om...
I seriously doubt such a reading came from stained glass work unless
you were fool enough to be eating the lead instead of soldering it.

Check the ingredients in "lead-free" solder and you'll find many
contain cadmium and mercury - both enormously more serious than lead.
The lead-free advocacy movement has nothing to do with health and
safety - everything to do with economics. The economic improvement of
those companies wanting to sell lead-free alternatives.

Consider it a move to improved efficiency. Instead of poisoning
yourself slowly with lead, you can get the job done quick and slick
with cadmium and mercury.



  #10  
Old May 21st 04, 11:18 PM
Moonraker
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Dennis Brady" wrote in message
om...
I seriously doubt such a reading came from stained glass work unless
you were fool enough to be eating the lead instead of soldering it.


Your understanding of lead poisoning and the dangers of working with lead
and soldering are apparently on a par with your economic accumen.



 




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