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  #11  
Old November 30th 03, 11:48 PM
jk
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"JG" wrote in message
. ..
"jk" wrote in message
et...

"A. L. H." wrote in message
news:UN_xb.150967$Dw6.616685@attbi_s02...


[...]

Yellow pages..... GLASS, STAINED and LEADED. Your local SG retailer

is
the best place to learn and get your stuff, and they really need your
busines. Good luck!


JK Sinrod NY
Sinrod Stained Glass
www.sinrodstudios.com


They may "really need" your business, yes, but I think most here can
attest to the fact that there are "good" local retailers and
"bad"--indeed, horrid--local retailers. I live about 15 miles from a
decent-sized (pop. ~500K) city, and the dominant retailer there (there
are only two; one's quite small) gouges customers on everything from
class fees to materials/equipment/tools. I do much, much better buying
on the 'net, and better yet when I occasionally tag along with a friend
who can buy from a wholesaler who's about 50 miles away. As for
classes, you might check with some local art centers (the one in my
community offers a variety of art classes, including at least one SG
class each quarter) and/or community colleges. You *might* be slightly
better off taking an introductory course from a retailer, if only
because they likely have a variety of tools/equipment available for
students' use/testing. (This isn't true about the exploitative retailer
I mentioned; they, for example, only carry Toyo cutters.)

Speaking for the consumer,
JG



What you call gouging, they probably call making a living. You have every
right to buy where you want, but realize that the superstores put the mom
and pop shops out of business. Next the net stores will put them out. The
way it works is they sell at a small markup until all the smaller
competition is out of business, then simply raise their prices to where ever
they want. You have to decide if it's worth your while to save a few bucks,
and not have the convenience of a local place to shop ever again. It's a
tough choice I know. I sell at high prices compared to the net because I
need to, to pay my rent. But I'm there to teach, and demo every tool. You
can hold the glass up to the light and touch it at my place. Is that worth
paying extra? That's your choice. As far as wholesalers that sell to retail
customers, they are not long for any business.


--
JK Sinrod NY
Sinrod Stained Glass
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories


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  #12  
Old December 1st 03, 02:04 AM
kasfam
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I live in Langley, it's about 1/2 from Vancouver...and yes...Kona is the
only large place for glass out here. I have been for Redmond before, but
didn't know if that glass shop, I will have to make a day trip out there
sometime soon. Thanks for the info...do you know if they have a website?

Jeannine


"nJb" wrote in message
...
kasfam wrote:

Hi Adam:

There is a fantastic place not far from you and their website will give

you
a list of their dealers. The website is www.spectrumglass.com and they

are
located in Woodinville, Washington. I haven't been there yet, but am

told
it's a great place to watch them actually MAKE glass. They make stain

glass
and sell to glass dealers worldwide. I live in BC, not far from the US
border and go to Bellingham all the time, if you go to Spectrum Glass,

let
me know if it's worth the drive. I may spend a weekend out there and go

to
see for myself.

Jeannine


A friend I was visiting in Whistler had taken the tour. He said it was
interesting but lasted less than an hour. If you buy your glass in the
US I would recommend Northwest Art Glass in Redmond, WA. They have a
huge selection and great prices. I bought some glass at Kona in
Vancouver and thought it was quite expensive, but then again, I think
they're the only show in town.

What part of BC are you in?
--
Jack


http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/xmissionbobo/



  #13  
Old December 1st 03, 04:27 AM
Mike Firth
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I took a tour with my host, the tech guy, when at the GAS in June. Agree
it is not long, but impressive if you like the hardware and the massive
melting of glass. Much less so if just want to see a lot of colored glass
since it is packaged as it comes off the line. Best to go early in the day.
Call and ask about tours.

--
Mike Firth
Hot Glass Bits Furnace Working Website
http://users.ticnet.com/mikefirth/hotbit45.htm Latest notes
http://users.ticnet.com/mikefirth/NTBowl.htm Once again, Empty Bowls
will collect for the North Texas food banks - donate.
"kasfam" wrote in message
news:Ibpyb.81826$oN2.54971@edtnps84...
Hi Adam:

There is a fantastic place not far from you and their website will give

you
a list of their dealers. The website is www.spectrumglass.com and they

are
located in Woodinville, Washington. I haven't been there yet, but am

told
it's a great place to watch them actually MAKE glass. They make stain

glass
and sell to glass dealers worldwide. I live in BC, not far from the US
border and go to Bellingham all the time, if you go to Spectrum Glass, let
me know if it's worth the drive. I may spend a weekend out there and go to
see for myself.

Jeannine

"A. L. H." wrote in message
news:UN_xb.150967$Dw6.616685@attbi_s02...
Greetings all;

I've always been interested in stained glass, but I'm finally getting to

the
point of having funds and time to actually act on the interest...where

is
a
good place to start? Can anyone suggest good classes in the Seattle

area?
And what tools do I need, and what should I look for in a good basic

set,
that will last for a while?

Thank you greatly for your help,
Adam






  #14  
Old December 1st 03, 06:23 AM
nJb
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kasfam wrote:

I live in Langley, it's about 1/2 from Vancouver...and yes...Kona is the
only large place for glass out here. I have been for Redmond before, but
didn't know if that glass shop, I will have to make a day trip out there
sometime soon. Thanks for the info...do you know if they have a website?

Jeannine


http://www.nwartglass.com/home.htm

Somebody here pointed out that their retail prices were high. I was
getting a good price since we hauled over 2 cases of glass out that day.
I took a fusing class and was quite satisfied. They also teach stained
glass. One of the guys in my class owns a glass shop in Victoria, BC.
They teach stained glass there also.

Here's a link to some other shops in your area. Not sure how large they
are.

http://www.bayareastainedglass.com/b...columbia.shtml
--
Jack


http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/xmissionbobo/
  #15  
Old December 3rd 03, 01:10 PM
Liam Striker
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I developed a relationship with my local glass seller. I buy wholesale now,
but I still buy from him as well and his prices are expensive compaired to
shopping on line.
Why?
-Every high quality sheet of glass is different.
-Ive gotton so much free advice. I would never be where I am today by
buying on line.
-The price of glass is really cheap when compaired to other things that go
into a stained glass panel. Price = 20% glass and 80% labor. If you change
the first to 10% by buying on line cheap glass, then your panel is worth 50
% of the price because it looks only half as good.
Panel #1: glass $150, Labor 20hrs, price $1200, profit $1050, satisfaction
High
Panel #2: glass $75, Labor 20hrs, price $700, prifit $625, satisifaction
medium.
- If we don't support mom and pop stores they go out of buiness, then the
wholesalers. Then we all take classes in Hobby Lobby or Las Vegas. Nothing
inbetween.

Liam




  #16  
Old December 3rd 03, 02:23 PM
Moonraker
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"Liam Striker" wrote in message
m...
I developed a relationship with my local glass seller. I buy wholesale

now,
but I still buy from him as well and his prices are expensive compaired to
shopping on line.
Why?
-Every high quality sheet of glass is different.
-Ive gotton so much free advice. I would never be where I am today by
buying on line.
-The price of glass is really cheap when compaired to other things that go
into a stained glass panel. Price = 20% glass and 80% labor. If you

change
the first to 10% by buying on line cheap glass, then your panel is worth

50
% of the price because it looks only half as good.
Panel #1: glass $150, Labor 20hrs, price $1200, profit $1050, satisfaction
High
Panel #2: glass $75, Labor 20hrs, price $700, prifit $625, satisifaction
medium.
- If we don't support mom and pop stores they go out of buiness, then the
wholesalers. Then we all take classes in Hobby Lobby or Las Vegas.

Nothing
inbetween.

Liam

Hi, Liam. While I agree with your comments about supporting local retailers
and the relative cost of glass as compared to the total cost of a panel,
you've completely lost me in your mathematical illustrations. Whose
satisfaction are you talking about, the customers, or the artists'?
Satisfaction with what? Appearance or profit?

I'm not sure that expensive vs. cheap glass makes a 50% difference in the
value of a panel. It might alter the value somewhat, but not 50%.
Frankly, I'd place a much higher value on the overall level of
craftsmanship (good soldering, properly fitted glass, mitered corners of
the frame, neat beading, etc,). It doesn't make much difference what the
glass costs if the craftsmanship or design sucks....

I'd be interested in your additional comments about pricing. In your #2
illustration, it appears that you cut the labor rate by $500 for the same
number of hours. Are you saying that you charge a higher labor rate when
using more expensive glass? I don't understand what you are telling us.






  #17  
Old December 3rd 03, 03:42 PM
Mike Beede
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Default

In article , Moonraker wrote:

I'd be interested in your additional comments about pricing. In your #2
illustration, it appears that you cut the labor rate by $500 for the same
number of hours. Are you saying that you charge a higher labor rate when
using more expensive glass? I don't understand what you are telling us.


He's saying people will pay more for a panel made with good glass
than for one made with crap glass. The result, since it takes just as
long to make, is that your effective labor rate is higher and you make
more money by using the more expensive material. The "satisfaction"
claim seems to refer to the feeling of the craftsman.

I suspect the numbers are just chosen to illustrate that point, not
because he really believes that the price ratio is exactly 1::2. I don't
do stained glass myself, so I don't know if there really is much of a
difference between local and by-mail glass. Others on the group
will no doubt address that....

Regards,

Mike Beede
  #18  
Old December 3rd 03, 06:03 PM
Harold E. Keeney \(Hal\)
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Default

RIGHT ON - LIAM! And I've found glass that I
really needed locally that was NOT available
from the big wholesalers. And your point about
learning so much. Between the retailers and this NG, I am very thankful for
the wealth of knowledge
I have to answer my questions. And ---- I LURK
a lot too!

Hal

"Liam Striker" wrote in message
m...
I developed a relationship with my local glass seller. I buy wholesale

now,
but I still buy from him as well and his prices are expensive compaired to
shopping on line.
Why?
-Every high quality sheet of glass is different.
-Ive gotton so much free advice. I would never be where I am today by
buying on line.
-The price of glass is really cheap when compaired to other things that go
into a stained glass panel. Price = 20% glass and 80% labor. If you

change
the first to 10% by buying on line cheap glass, then your panel is worth

50
% of the price because it looks only half as good.
Panel #1: glass $150, Labor 20hrs, price $1200, profit $1050, satisfaction
High
Panel #2: glass $75, Labor 20hrs, price $700, prifit $625, satisifaction
medium.
- If we don't support mom and pop stores they go out of buiness, then the
wholesalers. Then we all take classes in Hobby Lobby or Las Vegas.

Nothing
inbetween.

Liam






  #19  
Old December 3rd 03, 08:16 PM
Howard
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Default

Lousy technique, great glass and design and color, looks real nice and will
sell faster and command more
Great technique, poor color choices, cheap glass, static design will be a
lot harder to sell, and will have to sell cheap.

the best of both worlds.............MY LAMPSHADES.
the cost, out of pocket is about 18%, of the net (which of course, I get to
set) to me.
I keep track of time and materials.
Have about 23 years experience and about 1,075 units, mostly shades.
The cheap stuff from the 3rd (and 4th) world countries, touted as "Tiffany"
has not yet been a problem for me.......
someone spending up to a couple hundred dollars for a TIFFANY lamp, was/is
not going to be a customer/client of my work.
someone looking for quality work, accuracy, and being able to actually talk
to the craftsman to get what they want tend to be people I deal with.
If you cannot tell the difference (or care) between a "yugo" or a "lexus",
buy the yugo!










--

In the words of the IMMORTAL USED CAR DEALER:
THERE IS AN ASS FOR EVERY SEAT!


  #20  
Old December 3rd 03, 11:17 PM
Javahut
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Howard" wrote in message
...
Lousy technique, great glass and design and color, looks real nice and

will
sell faster and command more
Great technique, poor color choices, cheap glass, static design will be a
lot harder to sell, and will have to sell cheap.

the best of both worlds.............MY LAMPSHADES.
the cost, out of pocket is about 18%, of the net (which of course, I get

to
set) to me.
I keep track of time and materials.
Have about 23 years experience and about 1,075 units, mostly shades.
The cheap stuff from the 3rd (and 4th) world countries, touted as

"Tiffany"
has not yet been a problem for me.......
someone spending up to a couple hundred dollars for a TIFFANY lamp, was/is
not going to be a customer/client of my work.
someone looking for quality work, accuracy, and being able to actually

talk
to the craftsman to get what they want tend to be people I deal with.
If you cannot tell the difference (or care) between a "yugo" or a "lexus",
buy the yugo!

AN educated customer is , by far, a better customer for me to have. They
realize the value of a dollar, and also that they are getting what they are
paying for, and more.
Cheap things are of no value, valuable things are not cheap!




 




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