Please help with Antique Cameo

minkiemink wrote:
I side with Abrasha and Peter. The cameo that you have asked about
unfortunately, is unusual only in that the young lady depicted has a
tambourine. The piece is not well executed, and other than the nice
detailing on the belt, "crude", actually is the word I was going to
use. Here is an example of a very nice cameo for you to compa


http://www.imagine.org.uk/adventure/...meo-brooch.jpg

The woman is carved gracefully, the lines are fine and distinct and
the details are exact. Still, I think most of us have seen even better.
Sentimental value is the rule on your cameo I believe.

Best,

Minkie



Here are another couple examples of a fine shell cameos.

http://tinyurl.com/jrszf
http://tinyurl.com/hpfqo

Take a look at them Ted, to get a sense of what a "cameo ... of a high standard"
looks like.

BTW, a simple "Images" google of "shell cameo" and/or "fine shell cameo", would
have quickly educated you in this matter.

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

ted frater wrote:


You don't know what you are talking about. In this instance I do.

Well I bow to your superior knowledge in this instance,
I guess I missed the bit in your post that said it was made in the
holy land.
not so holy right now tho,.

You don't want to get into that one with me either.

You can trust me on that one too!

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

Abrasha wrote:
minkiemink wrote:

I side with Abrasha and Peter. The cameo that you have asked about
unfortunately, is unusual only in that the young lady depicted has a
tambourine. The piece is not well executed, and other than the nice
detailing on the belt, "crude", actually is the word I was going to
use. Here is an example of a very nice cameo for you to compa


http://www.imagine.org.uk/adventure/...meo-brooch.jpg

The woman is carved gracefully, the lines are fine and distinct and
the details are exact. Still, I think most of us have seen even better.
Sentimental value is the rule on your cameo I believe.

Best,

Minkie




Here are another couple examples of a fine shell cameos.

http://tinyurl.com/jrszf
http://tinyurl.com/hpfqo

Take a look at them Ted, to get a sense of what a "cameo ... of a high standard"
looks like.

BTW, a simple "Images" google of "shell cameo" and/or "fine shell cameo", would
have quickly educated you in this matter.


Hi Abrasha,
This one rumbles on doesnt it!!.
Its been interesting to read the different opinions on the quality of
this cameo.
I also take on board what you say whan looking at the examples you and
otheres have quoted.
now Ive been wondering why it is we differ? over the original example?
Looking again at the images I think Ive the answer,at least for me.
The examples you and others have listed are superb examples of the cameo
carvers art thats not in doubt.
BUT I looked on the original images from an interpretive view of the
subject, or put more simply the artistic composition ,not the quality
of the carving.
I do understand this difference as I have this problem to face in any
design Im involved with. Especially when it comes to die design.
One can get superb technical interpretation of a subject, but it
doesnt work artistically. it then becomes pedestrian. ie it lacks the
essential "Life" factor..

It was from this perspective that I wrote my point of view on its quality.
Altho the carving of the hand and chin are relatively poor, with which
I agree, the interpretation of the subject is a lot better than some of
the cameos quoted.
The carver captured the essence of the dancer very well.Its to me still
a lovely piece despite its technical limitations.
If I had to choose which cameo to live with, id have the dancer any day!!.
Artistic interpretation is subjective and dependent on ones personal
viewpoint.
Hope this makes it somewhat clearer where I was coming from
Ted..

The cameos here are very nice, but the author has really mixed up shell,
carnelian and sardonyx! BR


"ted frater" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
Abrasha wrote:
Here are another couple examples of a fine shell cameos.
http://tinyurl.com/hpfqo

Take a look at them Ted, to get a sense of what a "cameo ... of a high
standard"
looks like.

Ooohhh...look! Another cameo with a tambourine!
http://www.cameoheaven.com/gypsy1.jpg except this one I believe has
mount Vesuvius in eruption in the background. Found it of all places on
a site called Cameoheaven...lol. They actually have a few, (not all),
nice cameos.

Reading all statements, I still don't believe that obscure historical
depiction trumps execution or technical skill in any way. With that
line of thinking, I can carve something quickly and perhaps poorly,
that happens to have some odd historical reference, and in 75 years it
will have attained great value merely because of its odd content or
where it was carved?

Now...if this had been the only surviving 500 year old cameo from a
particular school, executed by an artisan who later became a
master....then you might have me looking a lot harder. But in this
case.....Its still just a so so cameo.

That said, I have several so so things that I love dearly, only because
they belonged to my family. Value this cameo for that reason alone.

Oh......I suppose I might mention that I am a carver....

cheers,

Minkie

ted frater wrote:
Abrasha wrote:
minkiemink wrote:

I side with Abrasha and Peter. The cameo that you have asked about
unfortunately, is unusual only in that the young lady depicted has a
tambourine. The piece is not well executed, and other than the nice
detailing on the belt, "crude", actually is the word I was going to
use. Here is an example of a very nice cameo for you to compa


http://www.imagine.org.uk/adventure/...meo-brooch.jpg

The woman is carved gracefully, the lines are fine and distinct and
the details are exact. Still, I think most of us have seen even better.
Sentimental value is the rule on your cameo I believe.

Best,

Minkie



Here are another couple examples of a fine shell cameos.

http://tinyurl.com/jrszf
http://tinyurl.com/hpfqo

Take a look at them Ted, to get a sense of what a "cameo ... of a high standard"
looks like.

BTW, a simple "Images" google of "shell cameo" and/or "fine shell cameo", would
have quickly educated you in this matter.


Hi Abrasha,
This one rumbles on doesnt it!!.
Its been interesting to read the different opinions on the quality of
this cameo.
I also take on board what you say whan looking at the examples you and
otheres have quoted.
now Ive been wondering why it is we differ? over the original example?
Looking again at the images I think Ive the answer,at least for me.
The examples you and others have listed are superb examples of the cameo
carvers art thats not in doubt.
BUT I looked on the original images from an interpretive view of the
subject, or put more simply the artistic composition ,not the quality
of the carving.
I do understand this difference as I have this problem to face in any
design Im involved with. Especially when it comes to die design.
One can get superb technical interpretation of a subject, but it
doesnt work artistically. it then becomes pedestrian. ie it lacks the
essential "Life" factor..

It was from this perspective that I wrote my point of view on its quality.
Altho the carving of the hand and chin are relatively poor, with which
I agree, the interpretation of the subject is a lot better than some of
the cameos quoted.
The carver captured the essence of the dancer very well.Its to me still
a lovely piece despite its technical limitations.
If I had to choose which cameo to live with, id have the dancer any day!!.
Artistic interpretation is subjective and dependent on ones personal
viewpoint.
Hope this makes it somewhat clearer where I was coming from
Ted..


Oh please.

Don't try to wiggle yourself out of this one. I like to call a spade a spade,
..... that cameo sucks!

Not by any stretch of the imagination is that cameo ever going to be a fine
cameo. Or from whatever "perspective ... of point of view". (interesting
construction this)

Give us all a break.

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

Oh please.

Don't try to wiggle yourself out of this one. I like to call a spade a spade,
.... that cameo sucks!

Not by any stretch of the imagination is that cameo ever going to be a fine
cameo. Or from whatever "perspective ... of point of view". (interesting
construction this)

Give us all a break.

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com


Alas....Wherever, whenever, however by whomever this cameo was made, I
too "interpret" this particualr "historical", tambourine swinging,
Miriam depicting, cameo as sucking.

:-)

Minkie

Abrasha wrote:
ted frater wrote:

Abrasha wrote:

minkiemink wrote:


I side with Abrasha and Peter. The cameo that you have asked about
unfortunately, is unusual only in that the young lady depicted has a
tambourine. The piece is not well executed, and other than the nice
detailing on the belt, "crude", actually is the word I was going to
use. Here is an example of a very nice cameo for you to compa


http://www.imagine.org.uk/adventure/...meo-brooch.jpg

The woman is carved gracefully, the lines are fine and distinct and
the details are exact. Still, I think most of us have seen even better.
Sentimental value is the rule on your cameo I believe.

Best,

Minkie



Here are another couple examples of a fine shell cameos.

http://tinyurl.com/jrszf
http://tinyurl.com/hpfqo

Take a look at them Ted, to get a sense of what a "cameo ... of a high standard"
looks like.

BTW, a simple "Images" google of "shell cameo" and/or "fine shell cameo", would
have quickly educated you in this matter.


Hi Abrasha,
This one rumbles on doesnt it!!.
Its been interesting to read the different opinions on the quality of
this cameo.
I also take on board what you say whan looking at the examples you and
otheres have quoted.
now Ive been wondering why it is we differ? over the original example?
Looking again at the images I think Ive the answer,at least for me.
The examples you and others have listed are superb examples of the cameo
carvers art thats not in doubt.
BUT I looked on the original images from an interpretive view of the
subject, or put more simply the artistic composition ,not the quality
of the carving.
I do understand this difference as I have this problem to face in any
design Im involved with. Especially when it comes to die design.
One can get superb technical interpretation of a subject, but it
doesnt work artistically. it then becomes pedestrian. ie it lacks the
essential "Life" factor..

It was from this perspective that I wrote my point of view on its quality.
Altho the carving of the hand and chin are relatively poor, with which
I agree, the interpretation of the subject is a lot better than some of
the cameos quoted.
The carver captured the essence of the dancer very well.Its to me still
a lovely piece despite its technical limitations.
If I had to choose which cameo to live with, id have the dancer any day!!.
Artistic interpretation is subjective and dependent on ones personal
viewpoint.
Hope this makes it somewhat clearer where I was coming from
Ted..



Oh please.

Don't try to wiggle yourself out of this one. I like to call a spade a spade,
.... that cameo sucks!

Not by any stretch of the imagination is that cameo ever going to be a fine
cameo. Or from whatever "perspective ... of point of view". (interesting
construction this)

Give us all a break.


So im supposed to be trying to wriggle out of this one.
Also that im to give you all a break.
You obviously need one.
If you had as much work available as I have you wouldn have the time to
critisize other contributors to this group,


..