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#1
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The Voices in my Head
Kathy N-V wrote in message
... It's sad to hear you had that experience. I completely understand where you're coming from - deep down, the child in you wonders, if my family can't love me, who can? You can give yourself the love they can't give, pat yourself on the back for building a good relationship with your daughter, and realize it's not your fault if it still hurts sometimes. But you also have some secret weapons. You're intelligent and you have a deeper understanding. Your parents' reactions to you, on the other hand, are to a great extent unthinking, automatic, maybe more of a reaction to things *their* parents said than to you. This gives you more power than you might think, in terms of the ongoing problem. If your parents tend to repeat the same insults time and again, you have the advantage. You actually know what they're going to say in advance! This means you can role play with yourself or someone else and plan the way you're going to react the next time they say that same old thing. My father was always asking about my plans, then using whatever answer I gave to launch into a lecture about my insufficiencies and how I ought to go about things. I role played this with my SO, so that the next time he did it, I was able to respond with, "Wow, it sounds as if you know a lot about this, Dad. You should consider doing it yourself." For once, he was speechless - my stepmother had to finish out the conversation. He was completely taken aback that I defended myself. He didn't try that again for *years*. It doesn't fix the past, but it can be very healing to know *you have the power to stop them from hurting you in the here and now*. This seems simple, but we don't do it, because the child in us is always hoping that mom and dad will give us that unconditional love - is always shocked when they don't. HTH, * TL * |
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#2
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Lee S. Billings wrote in message ...
My father had a habit of asking "no-win questions" (you know, the "have you stopped beating your wife?" kind). But he wasn't very good at it, and if you ignored all the innuendos, they came out sounding like something a 3-year-old might ask *seriously*. My ex, who worked with 3-year-olds, took to answering them the same way he'd have done with one of the kids in his class. It took several months, but eventually my father completely *stopped* using that tactic! Nice to have someone know exactly how to stick up for you! * TL * |
#3
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I was going to snip parts but ...again.. its all to good to.
What I would like to know is how to deal with the unspoken dissappointment that comes off my father in waves. He never *says* anything unkind to my face, but you can tell. For instance, when I brought DH, then my fiancee, to my brother's house my father showed up while Mike and I were on the deck. My father saw us on the deck together and sadly shook his head. I didnt see this.. it was Mike who let me know. I proudly introduced Mike to my dad ( not knowing of this rudness on dads part) I should add that I don't see my father, unless my brother has invited us both to the same function. That hasnt happened in over 5 years. Its to hard to deal with his crushing dissappointment. His loss. Most of the time I think Im pretty neat. There are even those people who are not family members who agree! Diana -- http://photos.yahoo.com/lunamom44 "Tante Lina" wrote in message k.net... Kathy N-V wrote in message ... It's sad to hear you had that experience. I completely understand where you're coming from - deep down, the child in you wonders, if my family can't love me, who can? You can give yourself the love they can't give, pat yourself on the back for building a good relationship with your daughter, and realize it's not your fault if it still hurts sometimes. But you also have some secret weapons. You're intelligent and you have a deeper understanding. Your parents' reactions to you, on the other hand, are to a great extent unthinking, automatic, maybe more of a reaction to things *their* parents said than to you. This gives you more power than you might think, in terms of the ongoing problem. If your parents tend to repeat the same insults time and again, you have the advantage. You actually know what they're going to say in advance! This means you can role play with yourself or someone else and plan the way you're going to react the next time they say that same old thing. My father was always asking about my plans, then using whatever answer I gave to launch into a lecture about my insufficiencies and how I ought to go about things. I role played this with my SO, so that the next time he did it, I was able to respond with, "Wow, it sounds as if you know a lot about this, Dad. You should consider doing it yourself." For once, he was speechless - my stepmother had to finish out the conversation. He was completely taken aback that I defended myself. He didn't try that again for *years*. It doesn't fix the past, but it can be very healing to know *you have the power to stop them from hurting you in the here and now*. This seems simple, but we don't do it, because the child in us is always hoping that mom and dad will give us that unconditional love - is always shocked when they don't. HTH, * TL * |
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Wow - good for you!! I feel kind of sorry for your parents - they obviously
have not taken the time or energy to get to know the real you. You're a gem, Kathy - and I am happy that your DD, DH and a million other people get to see that. -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net No, not those kind of voices! When I was growing up, there wasn't a day I wasn't told I was nasty, ugly and totally unlikeable. It seemed to be on a low level soundtrack to everything I did, and for a very long time, I believed it all. If someone treated me badly, I automatically assumed it was my fault. No matter what I achieved, it wasn't because I had done well or worked hard, it was merely a fluke. As I've aged, I have learned to ignore the soundtrack, and most of the time I like myself. I had even more or less forgotten where my bad opinion of myself came from. Until today. My father called to say goodbye to DD, before she left for Germany. DD told her Grampy that she was going to miss me, "because my Mom is so great, and I really wanted her to come with us." Grampy laughed at her and told her she was nuts. DD was incensed and defended me ferociously. Things got uncomfortable for a moment, and Dad punted, giving the phone to his wife, who is a total sweetheart. Later, we took my baby and my mother to the airport. I went up to the counter to check them in, and the poor woman behind the counter winced as she picked up my mother's luggage (which I think was filled with rocks). I asked, and she confided that she had wrenched her shoulder and that lifting luggage all day wasn't helping. Because I am a mom, I always have Advil in my purse, and offered her some. The counter agent accepted and was totally grateful. Afterward, my mother asked my why I offered the woman an Advil. "Was it so she would upgrade us to first class?" she inquired. (I've always gotten _a lot_ of first class upgrades, and my mom always thinks that there's some trick to it.) Of course not. I offered because I saw a need, not because I want something. Mom was dumbfounded, "But you're not like that!" she blurted out. DH, DD and I all looked at her like she had three heads. "Actually, I _am_ like that. Despite what you think, I'm a nice person." I answered quietly. DH and DD nodded in agreement, and my mother backed down. On the ride home, DH and I talked about the encounters with my parents, and how they see me. I've always been cast in the role of nasty bitch, and I refuse to accept that role. I'm not like that, and was probably never like that. Childhood arguments with my siblings were just that, and not some sign that I have a deeply flawed personality. DH listened to my angst filled ramblings and said, "Think about it. Two people in the world think you're a jerk, and everyone else loves you. Are you going to believe the rest of the world or just those two?" I concede that it's probably a few more than just two people who think I'm a jerk, but I choose to believe the rest of the world. I think I've finally made those insecure voices to finally shut up. Forever. Kathy N-V Obligatory Bead Reference: I'm so glad that you guys coerced and insisted that I start taking pictures of my work. Almost everything I've made recently is in DD's suitcase, on its way to Germany, and I'm so happy I have some record of the things I made. I might even make a few duplicate pieces (gasp!) for myself. |
#5
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Diana Curtis wrote in message ...
I was going to snip parts but ...again.. its all to good to. What I would like to know is how to deal with the unspoken dissappointment that comes off my father in waves. He never *says* anything unkind to my face, but you can tell. For instance, when I brought DH, then my fiancee, to my brother's house my father showed up while Mike and I were on the deck. My father saw us on the deck together and sadly shook his head. I didnt see this.. it was Mike who let me know. I proudly introduced Mike to my dad ( not knowing of this rudness on dads part) I should add that I don't see my father, unless my brother has invited us both to the same function. That hasnt happened in over 5 years. Its to hard to deal with his crushing dissappointment. His loss. Most of the time I think Im pretty neat. There are even those people who are not family members who agree! Oh I'm sure you are neat! What are his circumstances? Sounds like there was a divorce in the past? Did he miss seeing you grow up? Is he happy with his accomplishments in life? * TL * |
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Dad and my mom divorced when I was 18. I knew him all my life. From what I
can see from the perspective of age he never knew me well except from the veiw that I was a woman and the only woman I ever saw him treat respectfully was his mother. I also see a lot of emotional incest going on in my childhood...and lots of discounting of my feelings, opinions, thoughts and ideas. I know he wanted to be a history teacher but instead worked all his life at a more lucrative job. My sister tried till the day she died to get him to *see* her and my older brother distanced himself from him, for similar reasons to mine. We just couldnt handle the feeling that we were and always would be a huge dissappointment to him. I know I cant change him, talking to him would be pointless because he would hear the words but since he thinks the problem is me he wouldnt be affected by it. What I would like it to stop stewing about it. What a small thing to let ruin my days.... as with Kathy, there is one person who doesnt think much of me and the rest of the world thinks Im ok. Why do I listen to the old tapes and stew? Unproductive. Thanks for letting me vent. Diana -- http://photos.yahoo.com/lunamom44 "Tante Lina" wrote in message k.net... Most of the time I think Im pretty neat. There are even those people who are not family members who agree! Oh I'm sure you are neat! What are his circumstances? Sounds like there was a divorce in the past? Did he miss seeing you grow up? Is he happy with his accomplishments in life? * TL * |
#7
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"Diana Curtis" wrote in message ... Dad and my mom divorced when I was 18. I knew him all my life. From what I can see from the perspective of age he never knew me well except from the veiw that I was a woman and the only woman I ever saw him treat respectfully was his mother. I also see a lot of emotional incest going on in my childhood...and lots of discounting of my feelings, opinions, thoughts and ideas. I know he wanted to be a history teacher but instead worked all his life at a more lucrative job. My sister tried till the day she died to get him to *see* her and my older brother distanced himself from him, for similar reasons to mine. We just couldnt handle the feeling that we were and always would be a huge dissappointment to him. (This is inspired by Diana's post, but much of this could be said in response to what Kathy wrote as well): I'd be willing to bet that your dad isn't so much disappointed in *you* as he is in himself. Because you're his daughter (and perhaps because this is his tendency as part of his personality) he sees you as a part of himself. He can't reconcile the good person that you are with his inner image of himself as a disappointment to himself and others-- perhaps his own parents. But since he can't bear the pain of being such a disappointment to himself, he projects that out on to you and your brother. I know I cant change him, talking to him would be pointless because he would hear the words but since he thinks the problem is me he wouldnt be affected by it. There is absolutely no way you can please someone like this. The vision your dad has of you is not grounded in your reality but is colored by his own filters. This actually has nothing to do with you, and everything to do with him, and he's the only one who could possibly do anything to change it-- and of course you know this already. What I would like it to stop stewing about it. Maybe you could start by really working to develop a gut level understanding that the problem is not yours to "fix". It is so hard to let go of things like this-- I know that this is far easier said than done, but this is a problem that undoubtely existed for your father long before you came into the world. Having kids just gave him a place to put some of the blame for things that he didn't know how to fix and that you had nothing to do with. What a small thing to let ruin my days.... as with Kathy, there is one person who doesnt think much of me and the rest of the world thinks Im ok. I bet lots of us who grew up in dysfunctional homes feel the same way about our parents. I think that in many families the roles are cast while the children are still very, very young and the family dynamic revolves around that casting. That we don't always fit the role that was handed us can create a lot of confusion and tension until we realize real autonomy and stop worrying and guilting about the disconnect between who we actually are and the roles our families cast us in. Learning to have confidence in yourself as a good person when you've grown up like this is a big deal, and it sounds like you're doing exactly that. Why do I listen to the old tapes and stew? Because there's a part of you that still feels like the little girl that couldn't do anything right to please dad? Unproductive. But it isn't a bad thing to acknowledge, explore and express these feelings and thoughts. That's very healthy and productive. Thanks for letting me vent. Venting is very good for us Laura |
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Diana Curtis wrote in message ...
Dad and my mom divorced when I was 18. I knew him all my life. From what I can see from the perspective of age he never knew me well except from the veiw that I was a woman and the only woman I ever saw him treat respectfully was his mother. I also see a lot of emotional incest going on in my childhood... This would explain why he would not like seeing you with another man. and lots of discounting of my feelings, opinions, thoughts and ideas. So I'm still trying to understand - at one time, he did express his disapproval? Then, at some point, he stopped saying it, but the body language is still there? Do you remember what happened at the time he stopped verbalizing it? Was it at the time of the divorce? At a certain age? After a blowup / estrangement with one of your siblings? I know he wanted to be a history teacher but instead worked all his life at a more lucrative job. My sister tried till the day she died to get him to *see* her and my older brother distanced himself from him, for similar reasons to mine. We just couldnt handle the feeling that we were and always would be a huge disappointment to him. The one thought that came to my mind when I first read this, was the same as Lee's: he's disappointed in himself, and this is the way he deals with it. I know I cant change him, talking to him would be pointless because he would hear the words but since he thinks the problem is me he wouldnt be affected by it. Even though your first job is to protect yourself, I would not rule out a miracle for two reasons. The book Passages describes how after midlife, men start to explore their feminine side, women start to explore their masculine side. So for instance, many women start successful businesses in the second half of their lives. Men often get very wrapped up in their grandkids. Although, at some time long ago, his emotional development was arrested, as he gets older there is going to be a natural pull toward family. Also, as people age, they begin to experience the deaths of friends, colleagues, and loved ones. Eventually this leads them to confront the possibility of their own life's end. It's a natural desire to want to make peace with one's past while there's still time. These impulses may be stirring in your father, however weakly. I say this because I had a similar problem with my father. Although I "solved" it by removing myself from him, and stopping him from saying the things that hurt me, I now wish I had occasionally had it out with him - to express my side of the story, if nothing else. He died unexpectedly at a relatively young age, and now I will never get the chance to say my peace - whatever his reaction. I agree with Celine, working with a counselor would help you draft that letter you need to write him - to get it out there while he's still living. Whether he changes or not, you will feel better. And there's the million to one chance he might surprise you. Sometimes we have to be content with planting a seed. What I would like it to stop stewing about it. What a small thing to let ruin my days.... as with Kathy, there is one person who doesnt think much of me and the rest of the world thinks Im ok. Why do I listen to the old tapes and stew? Unproductive. Have you ever read the book "Drama of the Gifted Child" by Alice Miller? I think it would be very cathartic for you to read, and Kathy too. It's about how damaged parents have children not to love, but to be loved. How they put their children in the position of parenting their parents, and how this gets passed down through the generations. Thanks for letting me vent. You've got to get it out there! Not too many chances in everyday conversation to talk about these things... * TL * |
#10
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My therapist had advised me to see how "poisonous" my mother was, so I could
protect myself from her head trips. Now that I can see what she does to damage me, especial when she's being "helpful", I am able to see why she was a poor mother, but also why she makes a neat friend for an adult. For someone she doesn't hold power over. With reasonably good understanding of how she operates and how she effects me, I am able to have a reasonably good relationship with her. Tina "Diana Curtis" wrote in message ... Dad and my mom divorced when I was 18. I knew him all my life. From what I can see from the perspective of age he never knew me well except from the veiw that I was a woman and the only woman I ever saw him treat respectfully was his mother. I also see a lot of emotional incest going on in my childhood...and lots of discounting of my feelings, opinions, thoughts and ideas. I know he wanted to be a history teacher but instead worked all his life at a more lucrative job. My sister tried till the day she died to get him to *see* her and my older brother distanced himself from him, for similar reasons to mine. We just couldnt handle the feeling that we were and always would be a huge dissappointment to him. I know I cant change him, talking to him would be pointless because he would hear the words but since he thinks the problem is me he wouldnt be affected by it. What I would like it to stop stewing about it. What a small thing to let ruin my days.... as with Kathy, there is one person who doesnt think much of me and the rest of the world thinks Im ok. Why do I listen to the old tapes and stew? Unproductive. Thanks for letting me vent. Diana -- http://photos.yahoo.com/lunamom44 "Tante Lina" wrote in message k.net... Most of the time I think Im pretty neat. There are even those people who are not family members who agree! Oh I'm sure you are neat! What are his circumstances? Sounds like there was a divorce in the past? Did he miss seeing you grow up? Is he happy with his accomplishments in life? * TL * |
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