Chemistry basics for potters?

Hi everyone

I have litterally only had about 3 lessons in Chemistry during my schooling,
due to a change of systems late in high-school. And those 3 lessons were so
far over my head, you wouldn't believe it.

Now, especially considering the problems I am having using other peoples'
glazes, I really want at least to understand more about the components that
go into the glazes. At best, maybe I can learn enough to understand how to
make my own glazes.

Toward this goal, I have bought the following books and I will list them in
the order I intend to read them:

The cartoon guide to chemistry - gonick/criddle
Chemistry for dummies - moore
An introduction to chemistry for biology students - sackheim *
Chemistry in context - hill/holman

*I did do very well in biology at school, so I thought this would be a good
angle. Also, it doesn't hurt to know something about chemistry in living
matter.

I bought Chemistry in Context first, but that was WAY over my head. I hope
that the progression now will help me to get an understanding of things. The
cartoon guide actually looks very promising, and entertaining at the same
time!

Getting lengthy here. What I want to ask you guys is if you know of any
chemistry books that deal specifically with the chemistry of pottery - both
clays and glazes - and anything else that might involve. I do have quite a
few pottery books, some a bit in depth, that do deal with chemistry in a
chapter or more - but I have always skipped those before, so if you know of
a book like that as well, where the explanations are simple enough to be
understood by a newbie, please point those out as well!

THANKS for your time!

Marianne

The first thing I would have recommended you do is to go to these sites and
read what they have. There is more than you will ever want to know on the
digitalfire site about chemistry. It is an excellent educational source.
Frogpondpottery has a wonderful article on glaze stability. Both
Masteringglazes and digitalfire have software for analyzing your glazes. I
have a very primitive program for doing so but have given up on giving it
out because I kept finding bugs in it that people never told me were there
so I decided it was not safe for me to be sharing. Plus both digitalfire
and masteringglazes software have experts behind the software that can give
you the right answers to you questions.

http://www.digitalfire.com/
http://www.masteringglazes.com/
http://www.frogpondpottery.com/glaze...bleglazes.html


examples
http://ceramic-materials.com/cermat/education/126.html
http://www.masteringglazes.com/Pages/GM1frame.html
http://ceramic-materials.com/cermat/...ion/index.html
http://ceramic-materials.com/cermat/education/15.html
http://ceramic-materials.com/cermat/education/197.html

Organic chemistry is really not going to be of any use to you. In fact, the
most you will really need to know, you probably already know. Potters work
in the world of oxides - an oxide is a chemical compound containing one or
more oxygen molecules.

Next I would recommend you go to the clayart list - you have to join to post
but you don't have to join to search. Many questions you would ask have
already been asked.

http://lsv.ceramics.org/scripts/wa.exe?A0=CLAYART
http://lsv.ceramics.org/scripts/wa.exe?S1=clayart
http://www.potters.org/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/clayart/

The book I would recommend is Mastering Cone 6 Glazes by John Hesselberth
and Ron Roy (see above site).

While I really like this room it is for the most part relatively quiet (one
of the reasons I like it). I think you would do better posting your
questions in the other room. They have first class support there who check
in regularly.

Donna

P.S. I checked the site where you get your glaze and clay and still have
not been able to figure out what is what. They are not going to share the
recipe of their glazes however so there is no way to help with the chemistry
of your glazes. It would be good to know if you are underfiring your glaze
but I can't find it from what you gave us. As I said however, any
commercial glaze should not be giving you this problem if you are firing to
the correct temperature.

"Bubbles_" wrote in message
...
Hi everyone

I have litterally only had about 3 lessons in Chemistry during my
schooling, due to a change of systems late in high-school. And those 3
lessons were so far over my head, you wouldn't believe it.

Now, especially considering the problems I am having using other peoples'
glazes, I really want at least to understand more about the components
that go into the glazes. At best, maybe I can learn enough to understand
how to make my own glazes.

Toward this goal, I have bought the following books and I will list them
in the order I intend to read them:

The cartoon guide to chemistry - gonick/criddle
Chemistry for dummies - moore
An introduction to chemistry for biology students - sackheim *
Chemistry in context - hill/holman

*I did do very well in biology at school, so I thought this would be a
good angle. Also, it doesn't hurt to know something about chemistry in
living matter.

I bought Chemistry in Context first, but that was WAY over my head. I hope
that the progression now will help me to get an understanding of things.
The cartoon guide actually looks very promising, and entertaining at the
same time!

Getting lengthy here. What I want to ask you guys is if you know of any
chemistry books that deal specifically with the chemistry of pottery -
both clays and glazes - and anything else that might involve. I do have
quite a few pottery books, some a bit in depth, that do deal with
chemistry in a chapter or more - but I have always skipped those before,
so if you know of a book like that as well, where the explanations are
simple enough to be understood by a newbie, please point those out as
well!

THANKS for your time!

Marianne

"DKat" wrote in message
...
The first thing I would have recommended you do is to go to these sites
and
- snip loooong list of wonderful links and suggestions -

While I really like this room it is for the most part relatively quiet
(one of the reasons I like it). I think you would do better posting your
questions in the other room. They have first class support there who
check in regularly.

I also appreciate this room because it is quiet. As you might have noticed,
I don't stop in very often these days, so the fewer things to catch up with,
the better. Also, because it is a newsgroup, I can mark threads to ignore or
follow, and I can view only new posts. That way, it is wayyyy simpler to get
caught up with what interests me.

P.S. I checked the site where you get your glaze and clay and still have
not been able to figure out what is what. They are not going to share the
recipe of their glazes however so there is no way to help with the
chemistry of your glazes. It would be good to know if you are underfiring
your glaze but I can't find it from what you gave us. As I said however,
any commercial glaze should not be giving you this problem if you are
firing to the correct temperature.

I am firing the glazes to the temperature ranges required by the
manufacturer, so the problem doesn't lie there. I've added a little "ps" to
my bubbling post, as I had a thought that aluminium might cause the
problem - or at least make it worse.

I have also talked with my clay/glaze supplier, and have tried his
suggestions without luck. But I had a couple of pots a couple of years ago
that also bubbled badly - and he refired them at a slightly higher
temperature and they turned out wayyyy better. I try the same here, and I
have no luck - so it could also be something with my kiln - maybe it is too
small so that the circulation is bad? I dunno. I'm running out of ideas and
getting more and more pretty pieces that are impossible to use :-(

Hope you are well from that flu you had and happily jumping around doing
your things again!

Marianne

Sorry about top posting but I just don't buy that the other is more polite -
if you haven't kept up, the old message is there for reference - otherwise
why should you have to read it all to get to where you are going... Sorry
about the rant but I have never understood the etiquette of bottom posting
(I'm not referring to your proper behaviour by the by but my improper
behavior - so I'm not ranting at you but defending myself).

I'm all over the flu - just living with the lack of air from asthma due to
allergies (I'm really hoping it snows soon). Which makes me cranky - which
explains the above silly rant. Thanks for remembering and thinking of me.

How does this glaze behave over or under other glazes? If they have sold
you a glaze that is not maturing at the temperature they claim then bad on
them (you should not have to fire higher than what they say it fires to).
Is there a reason you are sticking with this glaze when it is behaving
badly? The reason I ask these questions is that depending on why you are
keeping this glaze and how it behaves with other glazes - there might be
short term fixes.

Donna

P.S. I also like this room better because you are more likely to get a
response (even if it is maybe more likely not to be corrected if it is
wrong) and you can easily follow threads. I hate the inability to keep a
thread together in Clayart. I posted your original question there and never
did get a response. There is quite a bit of chatter though on all sorts of
odds and ends I would never want to follow. Still, if you can at least do
searches there, I think you would find it useful and that is where you would
pick up the pearls by the experts. As it turns out really - most questions
you would ever ask have already been asked and the ones that haven't are
usually impossible to answer.


"Bubbles_" wrote in message
...

I also appreciate this room because it is quiet. As you might have
noticed, I don't stop in very often these days, so the fewer things to
catch up with, the better. Also, because it is a newsgroup, I can mark
threads to ignore or follow, and I can view only new posts. That way, it
is wayyyy simpler to get caught up with what interests me.

P.S. I checked the site where you get your glaze and clay and still have
not been able to figure out what is what. They are not going to share
the recipe of their glazes however so there is no way to help with the
chemistry of your glazes. It would be good to know if you are
underfiring your glaze but I can't find it from what you gave us. As I
said however, any commercial glaze should not be giving you this problem
if you are firing to the correct temperature.

I am firing the glazes to the temperature ranges required by the
manufacturer, so the problem doesn't lie there. I've added a little "ps"
to my bubbling post, as I had a thought that aluminium might cause the
problem - or at least make it worse.

I have also talked with my clay/glaze supplier, and have tried his
suggestions without luck. But I had a couple of pots a couple of years ago
that also bubbled badly - and he refired them at a slightly higher
temperature and they turned out wayyyy better. I try the same here, and I
have no luck - so it could also be something with my kiln - maybe it is
too small so that the circulation is bad? I dunno. I'm running out of
ideas and getting more and more pretty pieces that are impossible to use
:-(

Hope you are well from that flu you had and happily jumping around doing
your things again!

Marianne

On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 12:06:42 -0400, "DKat"
wrote:

P.S. I also like this room better because you are more likely to get a
response (even if it is maybe more likely not to be corrected if it is
wrong) and you can easily follow threads. I hate the inability to keep a
thread together in Clayart.

I have my Clayart email, as well as most my other email lists, sent to
my gmail (google email) account. gmail automatically threads
conversations. I simply filter my different email lists into separate
folders. Oh, and gmail is free.

If anyone wants an invitation to get a gmail account, send my private
email and I'll send you one. Posting such a request to the group,
however, will get you scorn and ridicule. :-)

deg

I'm real confused (again) - you just go to goggle to get a gmail account
don't you? Or are you referring to belonging to a group?

I tried having clayart emailed to me and was soon so overwhelmed with emails
that I just gave up on it. Clayart does have some mapping to threads but
they are frequently broken off depending on how people answer the posts. So
you can have dozens of threads with the exact same title. Since Clayart is
a list and not a group it behaves in a very different and archaic way than
what you now find in newsgroups.

"Dewitt" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 12:06:42 -0400, "DKat"
wrote:

P.S. I also like this room better because you are more likely to get a
response (even if it is maybe more likely not to be corrected if it is
wrong) and you can easily follow threads. I hate the inability to keep a
thread together in Clayart.

I have my Clayart email, as well as most my other email lists, sent to
my gmail (google email) account. gmail automatically threads
conversations. I simply filter my different email lists into separate
folders. Oh, and gmail is free.

If anyone wants an invitation to get a gmail account, send my private
email and I'll send you one. Posting such a request to the group,
however, will get you scorn and ridicule. :-)

deg

"DKat" wrote in message
news
-snip-

Glad you are feeling better. If I get any snow over here in Zurich, I will
HAPPILY send it your way! ;-)

How does this glaze behave over or under other glazes? If they have sold
you a glaze that is not maturing at the temperature they claim then bad on
them (you should not have to fire higher than what they say it fires to).
Is there a reason you are sticking with this glaze when it is behaving
badly? The reason I ask these questions is that depending on why you are
keeping this glaze and how it behaves with other glazes - there might be
short term fixes.

All the glazes I use behave very well normally. It is just with this
"beautifier" on top that I get the bubbles. It may be that I am putting too
much on. I am currently making up a bunch of tiles that I will criss-cross
with different thicknesses of glaze and beautifier to have a more accurate
example of what happens with the thicknesses/combinations.

Marianne

"Bubbles_" wrote in message
...

"DKat" wrote in message
news
-snip-

Glad you are feeling better. If I get any snow over here in Zurich, I will
HAPPILY send it your way! ;-)

How does this glaze behave over or under other glazes? If they have sold
you a glaze that is not maturing at the temperature they claim then bad
on them (you should not have to fire higher than what they say it fires
to). Is there a reason you are sticking with this glaze when it is
behaving badly? The reason I ask these questions is that depending on
why you are keeping this glaze and how it behaves with other glazes -
there might be short term fixes.

All the glazes I use behave very well normally. It is just with this
"beautifier" on top that I get the bubbles. It may be that I am putting
too much on. I am currently making up a bunch of tiles that I will
criss-cross with different thicknesses of glaze and beautifier to have a
more accurate example of what happens with the thicknesses/combinations.

Marianne

Back step.... I'm sorry, I totally misunderstood what you were doing. What
is a beautifiers? That completely changes things. When glazes are too
thick you will get bubbling - so if you are layering your glazes and then
putting this last layer on rather thickly I would not be surprised to see
bubbles. Have you taken a needling tool to check how thick your glazes are
(the final product)?

"DKat" wrote in message
news
P.S. I also like this room better because you are more likely to get a
response (even if it is maybe more likely not to be corrected if it is
wrong) and you can easily follow threads. I hate the inability to keep a
thread together in Clayart. I posted your original question there and
never did get a response. There is quite a bit of chatter though on all
sorts of odds and ends I would never want to follow. Still, if you can at
least do searches there, I think you would find it useful and that is
where you would pick up the pearls by the experts. As it turns out
really - most questions you would ever ask have already been asked and the
ones that haven't are usually impossible to answer.

I absolutely agree with you that clayart is a good resource. The trouble is
that it is rather messy to search and you get a lot of things you don't
want. Partly my fault for not putting in the parameters better, but still.
Also, this bubble problem is very specific, so I did want a dialogue - and I
am not about to post over on clayart - got too many places to post already
in different subjects.

But I thank you for posting there for me, and am sorry nobody gave any
feedback.

Marianne

"Bubbles_" wrote in message
...
Hi everyone

I have litterally only had about 3 lessons in Chemistry during my
schooling, due to a change of systems late in high-school. And those 3
lessons were so far over my head, you wouldn't believe it.

(snip)

Hi Maryanne

I have a book called "Ceramic Science for the Potter" by W.G Lawrence which
gives LOTS of information about all technical aspects of ceramics, including
glaze chemistry. If you wanted to do some serious study it's worth a look.
It's an old book (1972) but today I found several copies on abebooks for as
low as US$16. If you are interested I can post more information about the
book.

Cheers

David