On Jan 15, 9:46*am, ellice wrote:
On 1/14/09 10:27 PM, " wrote:



On Jan 14, 8:42*pm, Cheryl Isaak wrote:
On 1/14/09 1:50 PM, in article
,

" wrote:
On Jan 14, 6:11*am, Cheryl Isaak wrote:
On 1/13/09 5:04 PM, in article , "ellice"

wrote:
On 1/12/09 9:39 AM, *"Cheryl Isaak" wrote:

On 1/11/09 10:15 AM, in article ,
"ellice"
wrote:

On 1/10/09 7:51 PM, *"Cheryl Isaak" wrote:

On 1/10/09 10:32 AM, in article ,
"ellice"
wrote:

On 1/10/09 9:34 AM, *"Cheryl Isaak" wrote:

On 1/10/09 9:21 AM, in article ,
"ellice"
wrote:
SNIP

I was trying to explain to DS why what Avery said was just plain
wrong.
No
doubt he was trying to enrage Phaneuf, but it was wrong, disgusting
and
just
plain mean spirited.

I would hope that DS gets it - the whole comment was derogatory
towards
women, his ex-girlfriend, and just stupid. *The guy is clearly an
ass,
and
a
dirty, whiny guy on the ice.

His take is that if Bettman isn't handing down big penalties to Ruutu
or
Bertuzzi for intent to injury, or to players calling each other all
manner
of nasty things, then his reaction to Avery is over the top. Name
calling,
whether it is girlfriend, wife, mother or sister is just not in the
same
league as trying to bite someone's finger off.

I guess it's hard to explain decorum, generally disgusting behavior -
while
not a physical issue is still disgraceful. *Parallel track of bad.

Oh - he accepts what Avery said is bad - is just that it appears that
he
was
singled out for over the top punishment. That some one that did
something
equally bad isn't getting the equivalent punishment. I won't quote
DearSon,
but it was along the lines that Ruutu got his knuckles whacked with a
ruler
while Avery lost significant pieces of anatomy
C

Ah. *I think the issue with Avery has to do with the venue of his lack
of
judgement. *His punishment from the team is there choice - most of them
have
morals, behaviour, media clauses in their contracts. * *The fact that
the
guy is so stupid as to not apologize or recognize his lack of couth,
well.... And with a league trying to show its cleaned up image, recruit
fans, etc. *There are reasonable rules in place to deal with codified
misbehaviou - like Ruutu's - it's the things that go over the line -
whether
it's spitting or public asinine statements that open a player up to
different, or seemingly harsher, punitive measures.

Don't forget, he is, to some extent of product the Clinton years where
sexual misconduct was ignored or condoned. I can, sort of, see his point.

C
Umm, I think you go too far in just putting this on the Clinton years.
*It's

symptomatic of the lack of manners, judgement, couth, that ramped up in
the
80s and continued in the 90s. *This guy was what - barely a teen in the
Clinton years. *He's just a jerk who evidently never learned much in the
way
of manners from his parents and whatever education he has. *And hasn't
learned any with the money he's made, either.

Ellice

I meant DS and his generations odd attitude about certain parts of sex -
but
you're right about Avery.

How can you blame Clinton for DS? *He was what, 9 when Clinton left
office? *Please.

Elizabeth

I merely mean that many of the teens seem to have a strange sense of about
what is and isn't sex. And that is despite parents' best efforts. And yes,
to some extant Clinton is to blame as much as other parts of the mass
culture.

No way, hon. *I grew up with people who had that same sense of what is
and isn't sex and it was long before Clinton. *How do you think HE got
that idea?

Elizabeth

LOL - you just made me remember my "summer camp" boyfriend - when I was 14 -
going into my last year of high school, and he was entering his sophomore
year at uni. *Thought I was older - but still - he had some interesting idea
of what was and wasn't sex.....Uh huh. *It didn't quite work the way he
would've liked.

One of our casual friends was a Rhodes scholar same time as Clinton. *Her
take - he was a "hound then, a hound now" .

Right, but he certainly was not the originator of the idea that
anything short of intercourse isn't sex. That was pretty much the
accepted definition among the kids when I was in high school and
college. Always amazed me what girls thought they could do and not be
in danger of getting pregnant - wrong!

Elizabeth