Tying down - dealing with an extra long rope
 

Hey Roo and all,

I have a question regarding tying a load down in a truck. Let me ask it by
illustrating the situation. I had to transport a gas grill in a small
pickup and had my trusty rope on hand and was going to tie it down with a
truckers hitch by securing one end of the rope to the eyelet on the side of
the truck, running the rope over the grill, and then through the eyelet of
the other side of the truck (by eyelet, I just mean the holes provided on
either side of the truck bed meant for tying rope to). I would then tighten
the rope by threading the free (running) end back through a loop in the
standing part and cinching it to tighten. The problem was that this was a
50' rope and so it gets quite clumsy threading the running end through the
eyelet of the truck and then the standing loop. Of course, once its cinched
down, its nearly impossible to tie the rope off with my half hitches when I
have a handful of 20 feet of extra rope to deal with.

My question: how to you elegantly manage a running end that is way longer
then you really need? I thought doubling up the rope with a bight could
work but the eyelet of the truck is to small to accomodate a doubled up
rope.

Thanks,
LT

Larry,
It's not always possible to do this elegantly. Especially if you must
thread the rope through small eyelets that don't allow you to double over
the rope. On my trailer I use to cart rubbish to the tip I welded bars
along the length of each side. This allows me to clove hitch to one side
and throw the rope over the load. If I want to go back over the load again
the space between the bars and the trailer are big enough to pass the coil
of rope. Once I'm ready to tie my truckies knot I don't have to use the end
of the rope at all. I pass a loop in the bight under the bar and bring this
up over the standing part of the rope on the load. I grab the standing part
and bring this through the loop, creating another loop that then goes into a
round turn in the standing part further up. I tighten down and tie off with
a slipped clove hitch. In twenty years of carting loads in the trailer not
one load has ever come loose.

Darren
Australia

"Larry Travis" wrote in message
...
Hey Roo and all,

I have a question regarding tying a load down in a truck. Let me ask it
by
illustrating the situation. I had to transport a gas grill in a small
pickup and had my trusty rope on hand and was going to tie it down with a
truckers hitch by securing one end of the rope to the eyelet on the side
of
the truck, running the rope over the grill, and then through the eyelet of
the other side of the truck (by eyelet, I just mean the holes provided on
either side of the truck bed meant for tying rope to). I would then
tighten
the rope by threading the free (running) end back through a loop in the
standing part and cinching it to tighten. The problem was that this was a
50' rope and so it gets quite clumsy threading the running end through the
eyelet of the truck and then the standing loop. Of course, once its
cinched
down, its nearly impossible to tie the rope off with my half hitches when
I
have a handful of 20 feet of extra rope to deal with.

My question: how to you elegantly manage a running end that is way longer
then you really need? I thought doubling up the rope with a bight could
work but the eyelet of the truck is to small to accomodate a doubled up
rope.

Thanks,
LT

I think I remember answering a similar question before, but I can't
remember when or where it was asked.

Anyway, I believe the solution I offered was to deal with the excess
rope on the fixed side of the truck rather than on the tensioner end
of the rope. Try to get the rope on the tensioner side to be about
the length you want, and then if you don't have end access to what
you're hitching to on the fixed side (like a hook), then use a Midspan
Sheet Bend to close off a loop as shown in the second diagram on the
bottom of this page:

http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/midspan.html

(If you do have a hook, you can use a Pile Hitch or a loop on the
bight.)

Then on the tensioner side, use a Versatckle or some variant of your
choice to tighten things up:

http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/Versatackle.html

And then coil up or braid up the excess rope on the fixed side:

http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/ropestorage.html
http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/gasketcoil.html

Cheers,
roo

Ahhh, the midspan sheet bend - I had forgotten that! I would have thought
there would be concern on whether a variant of a sheet bend as an anchor
would be reliable when subjected to the extreme tension generated by a
versatackcle. However, I defer to your wisdom and experience: if you have
confidence in it then I am certain it will work for me as well. Thanks for
the advice.

LT


"roo" wrote in message
om...
I think I remember answering a similar question before, but I can't
remember when or where it was asked.

Anyway, I believe the solution I offered was to deal with the excess
rope on the fixed side of the truck rather than on the tensioner end
of the rope. Try to get the rope on the tensioner side to be about
the length you want, and then if you don't have end access to what
you're hitching to on the fixed side (like a hook), then use a Midspan
Sheet Bend to close off a loop as shown in the second diagram on the
bottom of this page:

http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/midspan.html

(If you do have a hook, you can use a Pile Hitch or a loop on the
bight.)

Then on the tensioner side, use a Versatckle or some variant of your
choice to tighten things up:

http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/Versatackle.html

And then coil up or braid up the excess rope on the fixed side:

http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/ropestorage.html
http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/gasketcoil.html

Cheers,
roo

Facinating. I don't own the truck I use so I cannot weld bars, but your
method is quite impressive. Thanks for sharing.

LT

"Darren" wrote in message
u...
Larry,
It's not always possible to do this elegantly. Especially if you must
thread the rope through small eyelets that don't allow you to double over
the rope. On my trailer I use to cart rubbish to the tip I welded bars
along the length of each side. This allows me to clove hitch to one side
and throw the rope over the load. If I want to go back over the load
again
the space between the bars and the trailer are big enough to pass the coil
of rope. Once I'm ready to tie my truckies knot I don't have to use the
end
of the rope at all. I pass a loop in the bight under the bar and bring
this
up over the standing part of the rope on the load. I grab the standing
part
and bring this through the loop, creating another loop that then goes into
a
round turn in the standing part further up. I tighten down and tie off
with
a slipped clove hitch. In twenty years of carting loads in the trailer
not
one load has ever come loose.

Darren
Australia

"Larry Travis" wrote in message
...
Hey Roo and all,

I have a question regarding tying a load down in a truck. Let me ask it
by
illustrating the situation. I had to transport a gas grill in a small
pickup and had my trusty rope on hand and was going to tie it down with
a
truckers hitch by securing one end of the rope to the eyelet on the side
of
the truck, running the rope over the grill, and then through the eyelet
of
the other side of the truck (by eyelet, I just mean the holes provided
on
either side of the truck bed meant for tying rope to). I would then
tighten
the rope by threading the free (running) end back through a loop in the
standing part and cinching it to tighten. The problem was that this was
a
50' rope and so it gets quite clumsy threading the running end through
the
eyelet of the truck and then the standing loop. Of course, once its
cinched
down, its nearly impossible to tie the rope off with my half hitches
when
I
have a handful of 20 feet of extra rope to deal with.

My question: how to you elegantly manage a running end that is way
longer
then you really need? I thought doubling up the rope with a bight could
work but the eyelet of the truck is to small to accomodate a doubled up
rope.

Thanks,
LT

I always encourage people to put knots to the test themselves if they
have the time and inclination. It gives people a feel for how knots
behave, and they might discover something (good or bad) that they can
pass along.

Go ahead and subject a loop made from a Midspan Sheet Bend to a heavy
load in various configurations. Put heavy loads on it with smaller
rope so that you can see what happens under high strain. It should
hold its form fine. Security in slippery rope under repeated cyclical
jerking or wiggling would be a separate issue of interest that doesn't
quite apply to what you're doing unless your line becomes a little
slack as you travel down the highway.

Cheers,
roo


"Larry Travis" wrote in message ...
Ahhh, the midspan sheet bend - I had forgotten that! I would have thought
there would be concern on whether a variant of a sheet bend as an anchor
would be reliable when subjected to the extreme tension generated by a
versatackcle. However, I defer to your wisdom and experience: if you have
confidence in it then I am certain it will work for me as well. Thanks for
the advice.

"Larry Travis" wrote in message news:
Hey Roo and all,

I have a question regarding tying a load down in a truck. ...

My question: how to you elegantly manage a running end that is way longer
then you really need? I thought doubling up the rope with a bight could
work but the eyelet of the truck is to small to accom[m]odate a doubled up
rope.

You have two easy choices. Firstly (for both), run an end of the rope
through one eyelet and over your load. Now, if you can guesstimate the
amount of rope needed to make a tensioning ("Trucker's") hitch, tie off
the long length with a slip-knot stopper; alternatively, you could tie
some sort of loopknot with the long end using a bight (such as a Bwl).
Then form your tensioning hitch, etc..
Otherwise, you can then tie off the end to the 2nd eyelet, and form the
tensioning hitch on the long side: the loop for this can be formed in
the mid-span, and then the long-end side can be pulled into this loop
in a bight and tied off with a clove (2HHitches) simply. (Or, more
elegantly, with a single half-hitch and a tuck of the bight-end up through
the bight-end of the HH which then is snugged tight against it--a sort of
doubled slipping (_ABOK_#1830, slipped).

--dl*
====

Or just keep a carabiner in your glove compartmment. You can slap it in
where ever you want with a clove hitch, and anchor the line on one side
with it too... thus making any legnth you want. The unused balance stays
in the bed under the carabiner.

"Larry Travis" wrote:

...
My question: how do you elegantly manage a running end that is way longer
then you really need? ...

One way might be to get rid of the "way longer bit" of the running end
by tying a Sheepshank Knot as the rope passes over the grill. The
Sheepshank Knot's security could be enhanced with a couple of toggles
or by tying the Sheepshank Knot with Marlingspike Hitches (ABOK
#1155).

Tying a loose Monkey Chain (ABOK #1144) as the rope passes over the
grill might be another way to eat up the running end. Rather than
tucking the end through the last loop to end the Monkey Chain, the end
could first go through the eyelet and then through the last loop in
the Monkey Chain to cinch up tight. (Does this make sense to anyone
but me? :-))

Lastly, one might tie the Knot Shortening (ABOK #1146) as the rope
passes over the grill to shorten the rope. Ashley's concern about its
difficulty to untie in rope may not be such a problem with synthetic
rope. (Then again it may be!)


Larry, please let the group know the results of your experiments!

Brian.