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Donna in Idaho February 22nd 07 09:59 PM

OT: The Congenitally Grammar-Picky (was OT Grammar Book New Log Cabin Quilt)
 
My biggest pet peeve in this category is "your" when the writer really means
"you're." It's everywhere!
--
Donna in Idaho
Reply to daawra3553 at yahoo dot com


It's just awful! My current pet peeve is the difference in its/it's and
similar words with and without apostrophes. I can't figure out why
people can't see that an apostrophe on a pronoun means that a letter is
missing. Therefore, "it's" really means "it is", not that something
belongs to "it". :S There is no such thing as "her's" or "their's".
Sheesh.
--
Sandy in Henderson, near Las Vegas
sfoster 1 (at) earthlink (dot) net (remove/change the obvious)
http://home.earthlink.net/~sfoster1




Megan Zurawicz February 22nd 07 10:27 PM

OT: The Congenitally Grammar-Picky (was OT Grammar Book
 
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/begquest.html

Yes, that one's almost a completely lost issue. But they don't call me Pig
Quixote for nothing. :)

--pig


On 2/22/07 02:53, in article [email protected], "Hanne Gottliebsen"
wrote:

"begs the questions": I have only _ever_ heard it used in as "leads us
to ask".

Of course, I do proofs for a living, and end up using phrases like
"circular reasoning" even with friends/family not from work, who may not
be entirely sure what I mean by that...



Cats February 22nd 07 10:38 PM

OT: The Congenitally Grammar-Picky (was OT Grammar Book New Log Cabin Quilt)
 
Just yesterday the 11yo from next door brought me an "essay"
he had written to show me his ribbon for best in class.

It was only two small pages of large writing of course, but
the teacher had not corrected a single spelling or grammar
mistake! I'm not talking about dangling participles here -
I mean there was almost no punctuation and any word over two
syllables was phonetically spelled out (and not well at
that!). Now this child loves to read, and when I questioned
him he said he thought some of his writing was "wrong" but
that the teacher didn't care as long as it was at least two
pages.

This boy goes to secondary school next year, and from what I
have observed there is no effort there to correct writing
standards either. One girl I tutored had her work corrected
when she was right and the teacher was wrong! I wanted to
write to the school but as I am not a parent there the girl
asked me not to as she didn't want the teacher getting mad
at her. What hope have we of producing literate students
with attitudes like that, and when even school report cards
come home with errors?

--

Cheryl & the Cats in OZ
o o o o
( Y ) ( Y )
Boofhead Donut
http://community.webshots.com/user/witchofthewest
catsatararatATyahooDOTcomDOTau


"Sunny" wrote in message
oups.com...
: Go, Pig! In my former life as a responsible, earning
adult, I was a
: writer. I was a newspaper writer/reporter for my entire
career.
: Newspapers often opt for "calarity over grammar" -- as if
the two
: were mutually exclusive. Drove me nuts. Even though I
always intended
: to be a reporter, my degree was in English Literature. My
husband is
: now City Editor of our local newspaper. He and I have had
some snippy
: discussions through our years together about language. His
position is
: that language and spelling are evolving, as they always
have, and that
: staid, stuffy traditionalists had better just give it up.
My position
: is that there is correct and there is incorrect and that
people who
: want to make their words public should first make certain
that those
: words are correct. I grit my teeth all the time when
reading
: everything from major daily newspapers to blogs. OMG
people! Get a
: tiny little copy of Strunk and White and learn to write
the English
: language.
:
: (I am not talking about folks, like all of us here, who
"talk" on
: posting boards. I really don't get too worked up about
grammar or
: spelling or such when we are having what amounts to a
friendly and
: very casual conversation. Nobody here is intending to
publish their
: words and immortalize their posts, so please don't be
offended by my
: little rant here.)
:
: Enough ranting. You get the picture. I fervantly wish that
people who
: write for public consumption would consult the necessary
books/
: websites/English teachers and write with precision and
conformity to
: standard English. And yes, I AM one of "those people".
:
: Sunny
: who grew up in rural, hicksville Texas saying such things
as "nukuler
: mirs" and "liberry" and "it's down around the co'ner", and
if I can
: learn and change, anybody can
:
:
:



Megan Zurawicz February 23rd 07 01:35 AM

OT: The Congenitally Grammar-Picky (was OT Grammar Book
 
My pet horror story in this vein happened to the son of an old HS
girlfriend.

As she's quite literate and had proofed his paper, she was somewhat baffled
to see how many points had been taken off for spelling, and looked further.

His teacher had marked "air conditioning" as spelled incorrectly. She went
to the teacher and asked her precisely what was wrong with the spelling, and
the teacher insisted that EVERYONE knows the correct spelling is "air
condishunning". Physically presenting the teacher with the dictionary entry
simply got a response of "well, I admit it's hard to understand how it could
happen, but obviously the dictionary's got it wrong as well."

Appeals to the principal got "We cannot override the grading of any teacher
for any reason."

If that's not insanity, I don't know what is.

(The school system in question was in Florida, the grade level was circa age
10.)

--pig

--pig


On 2/22/07 16:38, in article , "CATS"
wrote:

One girl I tutored had her work corrected
when she was right and the teacher was wrong!



Pam in Spencerport February 23rd 07 02:30 AM

OT Grammar Book New Log Cabin Quilt
 
On Feb 21, 1:07�pm, Pat in Virginia wrote:
Shoots, Eats, and Leaves is terrific. Yesterday I took
a bunch of stuff to the charity shop, and found a NEW
copy of that book. I gladly bought it for just $1.00.
Someone must have gotten it for a gift and was not
pleased. My gain.
PAT in VA/USA



Patti wrote:
I have it, too!
It was a revelation to the 12 year-old I was tutoring for two years - to
realise that punctuation was not a torture invented by teachers, but a
functional and vital part of the English language g
.
In message om, John
writes


I love her! *I received a copy of "Shoots, Eats, and Leaves"
for Christmas and have been wholeheartedly enjoying reading
it!


-- Anita --


I gave that book to her for her birthday. So much for sentimentality.
She loved it by the way.


John- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


A trend I have noticed lately is the way some people pronounce words
that start with 's'. Instead of saying 'street' for example, they say
'shtreet'. Or 'shweet' for 'sweet'. Or 'shtring' for 'string'. Listen
to Tyra Banks sometime. She speaks this way. I've noticed this more
and more on TV, sometimes from reporters on national or cable news
shows.


Sandy Ellison February 23rd 07 02:51 AM

OT: The Congenitally Grammar-Picky
 
Howdy!

"I could care less" which is wrong-wrong-wrong.
The expression is "I care so little I couldn't possibly care less!"
or "I couldn't care less!" ;-P

Heard too often (and have read it twice so far in the latest book on my
list): "They wished he would have had the time..." instead of
"They wished he had had the time."

Are people afraid to use the word "me" instead of "I"?
"The prize was given to my husband and I"-- Yikes!
In today's newspaper: "The children she taught, like her, were poor foster
children." Oy!

But it's that first one that makes me holler, "You could, too!" ;-P

Ragmop/Sandy-- too tired to quilt another minute after spending time
working in the yard; set out some of my flagstones until
it got too hot (86*), extending the rock garden


On 2/22/07 3:59 PM, in article , "Donna in
Idaho" wrote:

My biggest pet peeve in this category is "your" when the writer really means
"you're." It's everywhere!



Ginger in CA February 23rd 07 04:04 AM

OT: The Congenitally Grammar-Picky
 
I volunteer teach adult literacy, and for the most part my student is
a person whose native language is not English. I teach one-on-one so
we are able to really get into the meaty discussions about grammar and
how English is such a strange language. I usually end up teaching not
only the reading but also the speaking aspect of English. Until I
listened to the blunders and laughed along with my students, I
couldn't appreciate how much effort they go to, to learn the language!

Ginger in CA


On Feb 22, 6:51 pm, Sandy Ellison wrote:
Howdy!

"I could care less" which is wrong-wrong-wrong.
The expression is "I care so little I couldn't possibly care less!"
or "I couldn't care less!" ;-P

Heard too often (and have read it twice so far in the latest book on my
list): "They wished he would have had the time..." instead of
"They wished he had had the time."

Are people afraid to use the word "me" instead of "I"?
"The prize was given to my husband and I"-- Yikes!
In today's newspaper: "The children she taught, like her, were poor foster
children." Oy!

But it's that first one that makes me holler, "You could, too!" ;-P

Ragmop/Sandy-- too tired to quilt another minute after spending time
working in the yard; set out some of my flagstones until
it got too hot (86*), extending the rock garden





Dee in Oz February 23rd 07 05:18 AM

OT: apostrophe
 
Okay I like correct spelling and grammar, but I know that thhat I have
a lot of room for improvement.


Apostrophes I am hopeless with, but I thought that the following
sentence form our local paper was wrong.

"Playing on Myle's bed with younger brother Philip......" Is that
wrong and what should it be or am I wrong ?


Dee in Oz



On Feb 23, 5:41 am, "Sunny" wrote:
Go, Pig! In my former life as a responsible, earning adult, I was a
writer. I was a newspaper writer/reporter for my entire career.
Newspapers often opt for "calarity over grammar" -- as if the two
were mutually exclusive. Drove me nuts. Even though I always intended
to be a reporter, my degree was in English Literature. My husband is
now City Editor of our local newspaper. He and I have had some snippy
discussions through our years together about language. His position is
that language and spelling are evolving, as they always have, and that
staid, stuffy traditionalists had better just give it up. My position
is that there is correct and there is incorrect and that people who
want to make their words public should first make certain that those
words are correct. I grit my teeth all the time when reading
everything from major daily newspapers to blogs. OMG people! Get a
tiny little copy of Strunk and White and learn to write the English
language.

(I am not talking about folks, like all of us here, who "talk" on
posting boards. I really don't get too worked up about grammar or
spelling or such when we are having what amounts to a friendly and
very casual conversation. Nobody here is intending to publish their
words and immortalize their posts, so please don't be offended by my
little rant here.)

Enough ranting. You get the picture. I fervantly wish that people who
write for public consumption would consult the necessary books/
websites/English teachers and write with precision and conformity to
standard English. And yes, I AM one of "those people".

Sunny
who grew up in rural, hicksville Texas saying such things as "nukuler
mirs" and "liberry" and "it's down around the co'ner", and if I can
learn and change, anybody can




Edward W. Thompson February 23rd 07 06:42 AM

OT: The Congenitally Grammar-Picky (was OT Grammar Book New Log Cabin Quilt)
 
On 22 Feb 2007 10:52:55 -0800, "Sunny" wrote:

No Edward, what we are talking about is not the result of evolving
language. We are talking about the mangling of standard usage --
grammar and spelling -- by people who should know better or who should
employ a proofreader.

As for geographic differences in pronunciation: I find most local
dialects to be lovely to hear. The spoken language has great poetry in
it. But when one goes on the air as a professional, either a news
person or a spokesperson for an important organization/agency, that
person has a responsibility to speak properly. It's fine and dandy to
have an accent, but accents seldom account for the truly ignorant
pronunciations that one hears coming from public servants who should
know better.

As for OT -- I think this discussion is completely on topic. We are
quilters and we spend a lot of time making certain colors work
together, points match, lines are straight.....how can we not carry
that precision and care over to language? I really believe that there
is a similarity between quilting and writing. I think that's why this
"caught" me when I lost my ability to write for a living. This
discussion isn't just about words. It's about who we are as quilters.
We are people of precision and care. We are really discussing the
things that make us good quilters. Our eyes, ears, senses and internal
"gyroscope" if you will. I find this topic totally on topic.

:)

Sunny

snip

The evolution of language comes about by the very process of which you
complain. Language is the medium by which we communicate meaning, if
meaning is compromised then a problem occurs. If meaning is clear then
it really comes down to preference,the language used has served its
purpose. There is no such thing as 'speaking properly'. What may be
'proper' for you may be quite the opposite for others. Many in the UK
would consider North American accents and use of the English language
an affront rather than a natural development.

With respect to the subject being 'OnT', your reasoning is bizarre.
What is it about rec.crafts.textiles.quilting you find difficult to
comprehend?

Cats February 23rd 07 09:04 AM

Thank Goodness for Message Blocking was OT: Grammar-Picky
 
"Edward W. Thompson" wrote

((snip))
:
: With respect to the subject being 'OnT', your reasoning is
bizarre.
: What is it about rec.crafts.textiles.quilting you find
difficult to
: comprehend?



Please feel free NOT to add snide or whiney comments to your
responses to clearly marked OT messages.

If you don't like seeing OT comments in a "quilting
orum" - and you have constantly made it clear that you
don't - then don't read them. And if you don't agree with
the comments of others either don't reply to them, or at
least try to remain civil (see definition below).

From M-W Dictionary -
synonyms CIVIL, POLITE, COURTEOUS, GALLANT, CHIVALROUS mean
observant of the forms required by good breeding. CIVIL
often suggests little more than the avoidance of overt
rudeness owed the questioner a civil reply. POLITE
commonly implies polish of speech and manners and sometimes
suggests an absence of cordiality if you can't be pleasant,
at least be polite. COURTEOUS implies more actively
considerate or dignified politeness clerks who were
unfailingly courteous to customers. GALLANT and CHIVALROUS
imply courteous attentiveness especially to women. GALLANT
suggests spirited and dashing behavior and ornate
expressions of courtesy a gallant suitor of the old
school. CHIVALROUS suggests high-minded and
self-sacrificing behavior a chivalrous display of duty.

If you are merely amusing yourself by testing how many
people you can annoy enough for them to snap back -
congratulations! You have caught me on a bad day. I have
snapped back (more from exasperation than anger), and you
have goaded me into being as rude to you as you are to this
group. Are you happy?



Message blocking applied in THIS reader too - I should
have remembered when I updated (sigh)!
--
Cheryl & the Cats in OZ
o o o o
( Y ) ( Y )
Boofhead Donut
http://community.webshots.com/user/witchofthewest
catsatararatATyahooDOTcomDOTau





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