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-   -   Help me identify 'Iron Knot'. A 'self releasing knot'. (http://www.craftbanter.com/showthread.php?t=103780)

DantesBeard July 6th 09 04:21 AM

Help me identify 'Iron Knot'. A 'self releasing knot'.
 
I hope someone here can help me with instructions for a knot.
A few years ago, a guy showed me what he called an 'Iron Knot'. It
will hold any weight, even up to the breaking point of the rope, but
when the tension is released the knot comes apart. Useful for lowering
buckets off a roof for example. When the bucket lands on the ground,
the knot falls open and you can pull the rope back up.

It was practical and elegantly simple. And I forgot how to make it
before I made notes.
I'd be grateful for any help so I can stop kicking myself.

Best, and thanks,
DB.

[email protected] July 6th 09 04:54 PM

Help me identify 'Iron Knot'. A 'self releasing knot'.
 
On Jul 5, 8:21*pm, DantesBeard wrote:
I hope someone here can help me with instructions for a knot.
A few years ago, a guy showed me what he called an 'Iron Knot'. It
will hold any weight, even up to the breaking point of the rope, but
when the tension is released the knot comes apart. Useful for lowering
buckets off a roof for example. When the bucket lands on the ground,
the knot falls open and you can pull the rope back up.

It was practical and elegantly simple. And I forgot how to make it
before I made notes.
I'd be grateful for any help so I can stop kicking myself.

Best, and thanks,
DB.


You may have seen a half hitch arranged in a certain way, such that
its nipped end is placed on the far side of the object. Something
like this:

http://www.ruckus.org/albums/album26/half_hitch.gif

Depending on the rope and the object, it may not spring open and self
release when you want. And using such a trick may result in a spilled
load.

You may also want to look at this hitch:

http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/tumblehitch.html

DantesBeard July 8th 09 01:05 AM

Help me identify 'Iron Knot'. A 'self releasing knot'.
 
On Jul 6, 9:54 am, wrote:
On Jul 5, 8:21 pm, DantesBeard wrote:

I hope someone here can help me with instructions for a knot.
A few years ago, a guy showed me what he called an 'Iron Knot'. It
will hold any weight, even up to the breaking point of the rope, but
when the tension is released the knot comes apart. Useful for lowering
buckets off a roof for example. When the bucket lands on the ground,
the knot falls open and you can pull the rope back up.


It was practical and elegantly simple. And I forgot how to make it
before I made notes.
I'd be grateful for any help so I can stop kicking myself.


Best, and thanks,
DB.


You may have seen a half hitch arranged in a certain way, such that
its nipped end is placed on the far side of the object. Something
like this:

http://www.ruckus.org/albums/album26/half_hitch.gif

Depending on the rope and the object, it may not spring open and self
release when you want. And using such a trick may result in a spilled
load.

You may also want to look at this hitch:

http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/tumblehitch.html


Thank you for the leads. the Tumblehitch is similar to what I can
recall, but you have to draw the opposite end to release it. I think
the Iron Knot did have a loop which was nipped or trapped. I think I
made a comment at the time that it seemed similar to how I was taught
to tie a Bowline with one hand, the 'standing part remaining passive'
just like in the Tumblehitch instructions.

Thanks again,
The search continues...
DB

[email protected] July 8th 09 02:51 PM

Help me identify 'Iron Knot'. A 'self releasing knot'.
 
On Jul 7, 5:05*pm, DantesBeard wrote:
On Jul 6, 9:54 am, wrote:





On Jul 5, 8:21 pm, DantesBeard wrote:


I hope someone here can help me with instructions for a knot.
A few years ago, a guy showed me what he called an 'Iron Knot'. It
will hold any weight, even up to the breaking point of the rope, but
when the tension is released the knot comes apart. Useful for lowering
buckets off a roof for example. When the bucket lands on the ground,
the knot falls open and you can pull the rope back up.


It was practical and elegantly simple. And I forgot how to make it
before I made notes.
I'd be grateful for any help so I can stop kicking myself.


Best, and thanks,
DB.


You may have seen a half hitch arranged in a certain way, such that
its nipped end is placed on the far side of the object. *Something
like this:


http://www.ruckus.org/albums/album26/half_hitch.gif


Depending on the rope and the object, it may not spring open and self
release when you want. *And using such a trick may result in a spilled
load.


You may also want to look at this hitch:


http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/tumblehitch.html


Thank you for the leads. the Tumblehitch is similar to what I can
recall, but you have to draw the opposite end to release it. I think
the Iron Knot did have a loop which was nipped or trapped. I think I
made a comment at the time that it seemed similar to how I was taught
to tie a Bowline with one hand, the 'standing part remaining passive'
just like in the Tumblehitch instructions.

Thanks again,
The search continues...
DB- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Since you bring up the Bowline, another knot form that I had in mind
was a partial or uncompleted bowline. It is quite unstable, but can
be made a little more stable in pliable rope by winding the rabbit up
the tree instead of going down the hole. It's related to the bell-
ringer's knot discussed he

http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/spanloop.html

see also:

http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/bowline.html

(second step)


F Long July 8th 09 07:52 PM

Help me identify 'Iron Knot'. A 'self releasing knot'.
 
On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 06:51:54 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Jul 7, 5:05*pm, DantesBeard wrote:
On Jul 6, 9:54 am, wrote:





On Jul 5, 8:21 pm, DantesBeard wrote:


I hope someone here can help me with instructions for a knot.
A few years ago, a guy showed me what he called an 'Iron Knot'. It
will hold any weight, even up to the breaking point of the rope, but
when the tension is released the knot comes apart. Useful for lowering
buckets off a roof for example. When the bucket lands on the ground,
the knot falls open and you can pull the rope back up.


It was practical and elegantly simple. And I forgot how to make it
before I made notes.
I'd be grateful for any help so I can stop kicking myself.


Best, and thanks,
DB.


You may have seen a half hitch arranged in a certain way, such that
its nipped end is placed on the far side of the object. *Something
like this:


http://www.ruckus.org/albums/album26/half_hitch.gif

Depending on the rope and the object, it may not spring open and self
release when you want. *And using such a trick may result in a spilled
load.


You may also want to look at this hitch:


http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/tumblehitch.html


Thank you for the leads. the Tumblehitch is similar to what I can
recall, but you have to draw the opposite end to release it. I think
the Iron Knot did have a loop which was nipped or trapped. I think I
made a comment at the time that it seemed similar to how I was taught
to tie a Bowline with one hand, the 'standing part remaining passive'
just like in the Tumblehitch instructions.

Thanks again,
The search continues...
DB- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Since you bring up the Bowline, another knot form that I had in mind
was a partial or uncompleted bowline. It is quite unstable, but can
be made a little more stable in pliable rope by winding the rabbit up
the tree instead of going down the hole. It's related to the bell-
ringer's knot discussed he

http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/spanloop.html

see also:

http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/bowline.html

(second step)


F Long July 8th 09 09:43 PM

Help me identify 'Iron Knot'. A 'self releasing knot'.
 
On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 14:52:57 -0400, F Long
wrote:

On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 06:51:54 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Jul 7, 5:05*pm, DantesBeard wrote:
On Jul 6, 9:54 am, wrote:





On Jul 5, 8:21 pm, DantesBeard wrote:

I hope someone here can help me with instructions for a knot.
A few years ago, a guy showed me what he called an 'Iron Knot'. It
will hold any weight, even up to the breaking point of the rope, but
when the tension is released the knot comes apart. Useful for lowering
buckets off a roof for example. When the bucket lands on the ground,
the knot falls open and you can pull the rope back up.

It was practical and elegantly simple. And I forgot how to make it
before I made notes.
I'd be grateful for any help so I can stop kicking myself.

Best, and thanks,
DB.

You may have seen a half hitch arranged in a certain way, such that
its nipped end is placed on the far side of the object. *Something
like this:

http://www.ruckus.org/albums/album26/half_hitch.gif

Depending on the rope and the object, it may not spring open and self
release when you want. *And using such a trick may result in a spilled
load.

You may also want to look at this hitch:

http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/tumblehitch.html

Thank you for the leads. the Tumblehitch is similar to what I can
recall, but you have to draw the opposite end to release it. I think
the Iron Knot did have a loop which was nipped or trapped. I think I
made a comment at the time that it seemed similar to how I was taught
to tie a Bowline with one hand, the 'standing part remaining passive'
just like in the Tumblehitch instructions.

Thanks again,
The search continues...
DB- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Since you bring up the Bowline, another knot form that I had in mind
was a partial or uncompleted bowline. It is quite unstable, but can
be made a little more stable in pliable rope by winding the rabbit up
the tree instead of going down the hole. It's related to the bell-
ringer's knot discussed he

http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/spanloop.html

see also:

http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/bowline.html

(second step)

Hmn, earlier post came untied.

Have you considered the Awning Hitch?

[email protected] July 8th 09 09:55 PM

Help me identify 'Iron Knot'. A 'self releasing knot'.
 
On Jul 8, 1:43*pm, F Long wrote:

Hmn, earlier post came untied.

Have you considered the Awning Hitch?- Hide quoted text -


Could you post an image link or a description so as there is no
confusion about your candidate for a knot that can be released from
afar when not under tension?

F Long July 9th 09 08:24 PM

Help me identify 'Iron Knot'. A 'self releasing knot'.
 
On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 13:55:08 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Jul 8, 1:43*pm, F Long wrote:

Hmn, earlier post came untied.

Have you considered the Awning Hitch?- Hide quoted text -


Could you post an image link or a description so as there is no
confusion about your candidate for a knot that can be released from
afar when not under tension?

ABOK 83


[email protected] July 10th 09 04:11 PM

Help me identify 'Iron Knot'. A 'self releasing knot'.
 
On Jul 9, 12:24*pm, F Long wrote:

ABOK 83


Perhaps it'd work better in old frictive rope, but in modern rope, I
have trouble making ABOK 83 hold anything more than insignificant
loads.

Dan Lehman July 10th 09 09:19 PM

Help me identify 'Iron Knot'. A 'self releasing knot'.
 
On Jul 8, 9:51*am, wrote:

Since you bring up the Bowline, another knot form that I had in mind
was a partial or uncompleted bowline. *It is quite unstable, but can
be made a little more stable in pliable rope by winding the rabbit up
the tree instead of going down the hole. * It's related to the bell-
ringer's knot discussed he


I think that this is on the right track, although it would
be nice to somehow nail the origin of this "Iron Knot".

There is some variance to how well the Bellringer's knot can perform.
One way to I think improve both the knot's holding AND releasing,
and get some better wear resistance to boot,
is to make a fixed eyeknot in the end of the line,
and to size this so that its double strands will be what bear the
load, and its bight-end will be what is nipped by that Bowlinesque
turn -- the twin tension on the bight will better resist capsizing
forces of the nip, and should maybe also better help spring
apart and better free themselves with some helpful rope shaking.
The pre-tied eyeknot just makes this twin-loaded bight possible,
vs. trying some other way of involving multiple strands in the
nipping turn. Maybe works best if minimal bight-end is brought
through the nip (set & load carefully).

I just tried playing around with some other constructs, and there
seemed
an annoying risk that the release wouldn't go as hoped, and one would
end up with a simple but at least some-force-sustaining knot in the
rope when one wanted it to come free. (easily freed by a groundman)
(Heck, using 3/4" manila, hoisting 62.5# of wgt.s, I ended up
loosening
an Overhand eyeknot in this system before I shook free the nip !!
HUH?!)

--dl*
====




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