Re: OT Society... was Re: Banned from the Garden!--very long [Archive]

Stitch Lady

July 22nd 03, 05:25 PM

"sunflower" > wrote in message
...
> There's a HUGE difference thanks. I am building equity in my home.
Renting
> does nothing.

EXCUSE ME!!!!!!!

But just like you don't take some huge loan to study, SOME people rent so
they don't pay 5-6 times the price of a house when they buy one!!!!!! When I
quit renting, I will go from zero equity to 100% equity in a matter of a few
days rather then wait 15-30 years before achieving it!!!!!

Renting DOES do something. It SAVES a huge amount on mortgage interest!!!!!
Strange that with renting I will be a 100% home owner with no mortgage, no
loans, no debts, no assistance from parents BEFORE I hit the big
FOUR-ZERO!!! Saving me about... ooooh... something like 175 thousand pound
sterling in interest and costs along the way to get my house of my dreams,
thank you!!!

Just like you asked people NOT to make assumptions about paying your own way
when studying, do NOT assume that renting does nothing.

AND some rent because they find it more convenient than home ownership. Like
they move around a lot for their job or business a lot.

Oh and it is all a case of how you like to manage your money. If you got
evicted for non-payment due say job loss, you will have lost ALL the money
you have paid for the house so far. Remember, the economy can flip from good
to really bad suddenly without warning.

I think the people who survived the 1987 recession AND the early 1990s
recession can remember all the job losses and people who suddenly could not
afford mortgages.You may remember the 1990s recession , but I think you were
a bit young at the time of recession in the late eighties to remember that
from first hand knowledge or experience and the was way worse than the 1990s
recession was. I remember the references that were made comparing it to the
1930s crash. I can certainly remember Black Monday.

Renting does nothing?? It stops a possible pitfall of loss of a home when
the next big recession comes along. Sorry but you are completely wrong with
your reasoning.

Stitch Lady

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Dr. Brat

July 22nd 03, 05:35 PM

Caryn wrote:

> We just refinanced our 30 yr 7% Adustable rate mortgage into a 15 yr 5% fixed
> rate mortgage. Which means we will own the house outright much much sooner and
> pay tons less in interest.

Which in this kind of economy is a very good decision. Were the stock
market doing better, however, it would not necessarily be the best
option. Carrying a mortgage gives you low interest money to invest
elsewhere and increase your returns when the economy allows it.

The bank doesn't own my house, by the way. I do. The bank has a lien
against it limiting some of the things I can do with that house unless
the lien is satisfied. Same with my car.

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*barnacle-encrusted bitch~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Dianne Lewandowski

July 22nd 03, 06:31 PM

Stitch Lady wrote:

> I think the people who survived the 1987 recession AND the early 1990s
> recession can remember all the job losses and people who suddenly could not
> afford mortgages.You may remember the 1990s recession , but I think you were
> a bit young at the time of recession in the late eighties to remember that
> from first hand knowledge or experience and the was way worse than the 1990s
> recession was. I remember the references that were made comparing it to the
> 1930s crash. I can certainly remember Black Monday.

Hmmmmm, I remember the recession in the early 1980's. My then husband
lost his job . . . we barely made it through. Then in 1991, the next
recession hit while Bush Sr. was President. My new husband was out of a
job for a year. It was then that I remember all the references to the
1930's and Black Monday. While Bush Sr. stood before the cameras and
denied there was a problem. While the general public was writing
letters to the editor stating that anyone could get a job who wanted
one. My husband tried everything from pizza delivery to gas station
mart to janitor. His degree shut him out of the market. Meantime,
unemployment was taken for child support.

The recession of the early 1990's hit white collar workers.

Since that recession, we have struggled to get on our feet again. You
lose a year of pay, you have a debt you must struggle to pay off. And
week after week I have read in the paper another 2,000 workers laid off,
another plant closing, another business scandal.

We're all in trouble folks, and we're too busy watching "reality
television" to get it.

Dianne

KDLark

July 22nd 03, 07:03 PM

>Renting DOES do something. It SAVES a huge amount on mortgage interest!!!!!

Well...that depends. For almost twenty years, I paid the mortgage on a 1,200
square foot house. Recently, we decided to sell this house and build another
one. While our new house is being built, we will be renters.

We paid about $400.00 a month on the house. Now we are paying over $700.00 on
a 900 square foot apartment.

According to the papers for our new mortgage, we will again pay about $700.00
dollars a month -- on a 1,900 square foot house.

However, we won't pay that much because we have quite a bit of equity in our
old house (we have always paid a little extra each month above and beyond the
mortgage payment) which the lender didn't take into account on her estimate.
The house also went up about $30,000 in market value, so our down payment will
be substantual. Therefore, it looks very like we will be paying less on the
1,900 foot square house than we are paying for the 900 square foot apartment.
The price of the house, by the way, also includes 1/2 acres of wooded land.

Remember, the owner of the apartment has a mortgage -- and is very unlikely to
take less in rent than his mortgage costs him/her, unless there are very strict
government rent controls that hold rental prices down or the rental unit is
part of public housing. Yes, a home owner could lose all their equity, but a
renter could go through any savings pretty darn fast, too, all things being
equal.

Katrina L.

sunflower

July 22nd 03, 07:31 PM

In my area - it is exactly as the next lady stated it. I'm not paying twice
as much for rent when I can own something for less.

Sarah
"Stitch Lady" > wrote in message
...
> "sunflower" > wrote in message
> ...
> > There's a HUGE difference thanks. I am building equity in my home.
> Renting
> > does nothing.
>
> EXCUSE ME!!!!!!!
>
> But just like you don't take some huge loan to study, SOME people rent so
> they don't pay 5-6 times the price of a house when they buy one!!!!!! When
I
> quit renting, I will go from zero equity to 100% equity in a matter of a
few
> days rather then wait 15-30 years before achieving it!!!!!
>
> Renting DOES do something. It SAVES a huge amount on mortgage
interest!!!!!
> Strange that with renting I will be a 100% home owner with no mortgage, no
> loans, no debts, no assistance from parents BEFORE I hit the big
> FOUR-ZERO!!! Saving me about... ooooh... something like 175 thousand pound
> sterling in interest and costs along the way to get my house of my dreams,
> thank you!!!
>
> Just like you asked people NOT to make assumptions about paying your own
way
> when studying, do NOT assume that renting does nothing.
>
> AND some rent because they find it more convenient than home ownership.
Like
> they move around a lot for their job or business a lot.
>
> Oh and it is all a case of how you like to manage your money. If you got
> evicted for non-payment due say job loss, you will have lost ALL the money
> you have paid for the house so far. Remember, the economy can flip from
good
> to really bad suddenly without warning.
>
> I think the people who survived the 1987 recession AND the early 1990s
> recession can remember all the job losses and people who suddenly could
not
> afford mortgages.You may remember the 1990s recession , but I think you
were
> a bit young at the time of recession in the late eighties to remember that
> from first hand knowledge or experience and the was way worse than the
1990s
> recession was. I remember the references that were made comparing it to
the
> 1930s crash. I can certainly remember Black Monday.
>
> Renting does nothing?? It stops a possible pitfall of loss of a home when
> the next big recession comes along. Sorry but you are completely wrong
with
> your reasoning.
>
>
> Stitch Lady
>
>
> ---
> This email has been certified to be free from viruses.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 18/07/2003
>
>

sunflower

July 22nd 03, 07:34 PM

You seem to be a very angry person - I was stating MYYYYYYYYYY situation.

Renting in my area in MYYYYYYY situation - is too $$, for what you get. Why
would I spend double the money for an apartment on the third floor with no
lawn or room for my daughter to play when I could own something for way
less.

Again - I was explaining MYYYYYY situation - it is you who is drawing the
conclusions from nothing.

Sarah ;)
"sunflower" > wrote in message
...
> In my area - it is exactly as the next lady stated it. I'm not paying
twice
> as much for rent when I can own something for less.
>
> Sarah
> "Stitch Lady" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "sunflower" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > There's a HUGE difference thanks. I am building equity in my home.
> > Renting
> > > does nothing.
> >
> > EXCUSE ME!!!!!!!
> >
> > But just like you don't take some huge loan to study, SOME people rent
so
> > they don't pay 5-6 times the price of a house when they buy one!!!!!!
When
> I
> > quit renting, I will go from zero equity to 100% equity in a matter of a
> few
> > days rather then wait 15-30 years before achieving it!!!!!
> >
> > Renting DOES do something. It SAVES a huge amount on mortgage
> interest!!!!!
> > Strange that with renting I will be a 100% home owner with no mortgage,
no
> > loans, no debts, no assistance from parents BEFORE I hit the big
> > FOUR-ZERO!!! Saving me about... ooooh... something like 175 thousand
pound
> > sterling in interest and costs along the way to get my house of my
dreams,
> > thank you!!!
> >
> > Just like you asked people NOT to make assumptions about paying your own
> way
> > when studying, do NOT assume that renting does nothing.
> >
> > AND some rent because they find it more convenient than home ownership.
> Like
> > they move around a lot for their job or business a lot.
> >
> > Oh and it is all a case of how you like to manage your money. If you got
> > evicted for non-payment due say job loss, you will have lost ALL the
money
> > you have paid for the house so far. Remember, the economy can flip from
> good
> > to really bad suddenly without warning.
> >
> > I think the people who survived the 1987 recession AND the early 1990s
> > recession can remember all the job losses and people who suddenly could
> not
> > afford mortgages.You may remember the 1990s recession , but I think you
> were
> > a bit young at the time of recession in the late eighties to remember
that
> > from first hand knowledge or experience and the was way worse than the
> 1990s
> > recession was. I remember the references that were made comparing it to
> the
> > 1930s crash. I can certainly remember Black Monday.
> >
> > Renting does nothing?? It stops a possible pitfall of loss of a home
when
> > the next big recession comes along. Sorry but you are completely wrong
> with
> > your reasoning.
> >
> >
> > Stitch Lady
> >
> >
> > ---
> > This email has been certified to be free from viruses.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 18/07/2003
> >
> >
>
>

Gillian Murray

July 22nd 03, 08:42 PM

That is quite interesting to read you are building equity in your home. Down
here in Florida, manufactured housing depreciates with time; I know when it
comes time to sell and move on to the Old Folk's Home, we will NEVER get
back what we paid for the home. In fact, you can't get a Home Equity loan on
a manufactured home. I checked into that a couple of years ago, thinking it
may be cheaper to do that, since we own the house entirely ( we paid cash),
and use that money to pay off the Bounder loan, which has higher interest
rates as an RV.

We can always hope that Walmart will offer us an arm and a leg for the land
the house sits on!!

Gillian

"sunflower" > wrote in message
...
> There's a HUGE difference thanks. I am building equity in my home.
Renting
> does nothing.
>
> Sarah
> "Stitch Lady" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Caryn" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > But, like I said, when you are paying a mortgage, whether your house
was
> > built
> > > or arrived on wheels, the bank owns it! <bg>
> >
> > And when you pay rent, the landlord owns it.
> >
> > And if you live at home, your parents own it.... or the bank.
> >
> > <VBG>
> >
> >
> > Stitch Lady
> >
> >
> > ---
> > This email has been certified to be free from viruses.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 18/07/2003
> >
> >
>
>

emerald

July 22nd 03, 11:53 PM

"KDLark" > wrote in message
...
> Therefore, it looks very like we will be paying less on the
> 1,900 foot square house than we are paying for the 900 square foot
apartment.

Much depends on the housing market in your area, also. Ours is steady at the
moment, but, and it's a big "but", our local economy has taken a battering
with the softwood lumber dispute, SARS (we don't actually have it out here),
and BSE (we don't have that either!). If things get much worse and we lose
ever more jobs, people who are homeowners could take a bath when they try to
sell.
As a renter I can hand back the keys and walk away with 30 days notice.

Works for me at this age and stage of my life.

emerald, of the itchy feet!

Gillian Murray

July 23rd 03, 01:41 AM

I guess it just goes to show that you cannot compare nation to nation, any
more than you can compare state/province to state/province. The world is a
big place, and generalisation is very inaccurate.

Good luck to you, but remember my earlier post. Things CAN change with time,
for the better hopefully, or for the worse.!! 24 years old, almost 25, I had
just come to the USA on a year's contract to run a lab in a Mass hospital,
and teach in their Med Tech school. Big adventure, and I was glad I was free
to do it; especially being a shy person. Met DH#1 while I was in Mass; we
married, I did the Navy life bit for twenty years, and it was a wonderful
adventure!!! However, when he died after twenty years of marriage, we had
both changed. Still friends, but not the "soulmates" we thought we were.
Time had passed, and interests change. This is all part of growing and
developing, and one always hope you both still on the same track.

A thoughtful introspect

Gillian

"sunflower" > wrote in message
...
> That sucks :( We lucked out on our place because we bought it for what
the
> previous owners owed on it - if we were to sell right now we could get app
> $10 000 more than what we paid for it.
>
> Around here - depending on the condition of the home and it's location -
the
> value can either stay the same, go up, or drop.
>
> Sarah
> "Gillian Murray" > wrote in message
> ...
> > That is quite interesting to read you are building equity in your home.
> Down
> > here in Florida, manufactured housing depreciates with time; I know when
> it
> > comes time to sell and move on to the Old Folk's Home, we will NEVER get
> > back what we paid for the home. In fact, you can't get a Home Equity
loan
> on
> > a manufactured home. I checked into that a couple of years ago, thinking
> it
> > may be cheaper to do that, since we own the house entirely ( we paid
> cash),
> > and use that money to pay off the Bounder loan, which has higher
interest
> > rates as an RV.
> >
> > We can always hope that Walmart will offer us an arm and a leg for the
> land
> > the house sits on!!
> >
> > Gillian
> >
> > "sunflower" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > There's a HUGE difference thanks. I am building equity in my home.
> > Renting
> > > does nothing.
> > >
> > > Sarah
> > > "Stitch Lady" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > "Caryn" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > But, like I said, when you are paying a mortgage, whether your
house
> > was
> > > > built
> > > > > or arrived on wheels, the bank owns it! <bg>
> > > >
> > > > And when you pay rent, the landlord owns it.
> > > >
> > > > And if you live at home, your parents own it.... or the bank.
> > > >
> > > > <VBG>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Stitch Lady
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > This email has been certified to be free from viruses.
> > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > > > Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 18/07/2003
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Stitch Lady

July 23rd 03, 02:07 AM

"Alison" > wrote in message
...
> I find this statement (that renting will increase home equity - isn't
> that what the 0 equity to 100% equity means?) very confusing. Here in
> the US the usual renting situation gives you NO ownership of the
> property. And you can't deduct the mortgage interest from your income
> taxes. You just keep handing the landlord/owner money and getting
> nothing for it (but rent increases.) There are "rent-to-own" or
> "lease with option to buy" situations but they are not the usual
> thing. Also with rentals you have the problem of qualifying for them
> (my friends with 2 dogs and 2 cats had a terrible time finding a
> place.) If you're not bound to a community etc. then renting is
> probably better. Otherwise, if you can afford it, and can get a
> reasonable mortgage payment, I'd ocnsider owning.

Hi Alison,

Sorry to confuse you.

I rent a property. At the same time I save up a lump of cash each week in
the bank. That lump of cash in turn earns me a lump of interest. I do this
until that lump of cash (and interest) equals the cost of a house costing
about 100K or so. I then go buy a house. In the meantime I have spent less
than 15K on rent in a 10 year period saving up. So home ownership costs me
15K for rent, 100K in savings, and not a cent on interest charged on
mortgages and any associated costs, etc. I have no ownership of said rented
property BUT I have got 100% ownership of said 100K house much quicker than
I would with a mortgage. And before (as said before) I hit the big
FOUR-ZERO.

The cost to me over 15 years would 115K in how I am gaining ownership. Oh
and the bank contributed as well in the equation. At last calculation about
5K or so. LOL

The cost to me over 15 years WITH a mortgage for the same 100K house is 175K
or more. And the bank would own the house for the next 15 years. The
interest of a mortgage on a 100K house is about 75K or more.

In my situation I would own 100% equity in that 100K property overnight. I
would have no rent, no mortgage, no debts, no chance of losing the house
because of job loss, nothing, nada, naught.

In the traditional mortgage situation, there is a chance that I get in a
situation of negative equity (which for those who don't know means that the
house is worth less than your mortgage). If I cannot pay because job loss I
could be evicted and loose all money that was paid to date and be left with
only my shirt on my back. And then all you can do is move into rented
property.

And I am saying this because I have a number of friend to whom this happened
so I do know how painful losing your home can be because I had to console
one of those friends while helping her and her family move out. And they
were only 23K away from 100% home ownership but recession (the 1990s one)
meant they both lost good jobs and were unable to get a new job anywhere.
And so they lost their house.

Anyway, I have looked at all the costs involved and renting for a while for
the convenience of it being cheap, saving up like hell and earning interest
rather then paying interest to the bank, and then having the capability of
outright home ownership without a worry on the horizon, is my choice of home
ownership.

And then when you are in that 100K house without debts, a mortgage and
relatively very little cost of living there, you can just start all over
again with saving up and then move up to the 200K house in half the time it
took get in the 100K house. :-))

Oh and the rent increases are minimal in the grander scheme of things.

And my friend.Yes, the one who lost her job. She was able to buy back her
old house late last year without a mortgage or a worry on the horizon. The
can now afford to live on hubby's part time job rather then both of them
having to work full time. Maybe that shows how much cheap this way of
getting home ownership is really. Ten years of both working and then one or
both being able to go part time. Now if you are a designer and doing a full
time job, this message must give you food for thought if you are struggling
between a full time job and running a needlework business. ;-)

And I am gladly taking my friend's example and doing EXACTLY what she is
doing.

Stitch Lady

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Stitch Lady

July 23rd 03, 02:30 AM

"Gillian Murray" > wrote in message
...
> both changed. Still friends, but not the "soulmates" we thought we were.
> Time had passed, and interests change. This is all part of growing and
> developing, and one always hope you both still on the same track.

Then my husband and I must be doing really well then. We are still soul
mates after 12 years but we discovered very early on in the marriage that
giving each other breathing space and by listening, we are keeping in love.
Oh we have had our down times in the marriage, but that was always followed
soon with sincere apologies.

Shania Twain's You're Still The One is our song.

We did (and are still) beating the odds with family, friends, life. Our
family said from day one "it will never last".

We both grow and develop and we are under no illusion that marriages can
end. Both our parents are divorced. But maybe that knowledge makes us more
determined to keep going forward together. There are things one cannot know
and understand unless one has been a teen and have seen a marriage break-up
between the parents (whether amicable or not).

If you have kids, they probably agree to a degree with me.

My parents divorced when I was a teen. I vowed back then that I would get in
a similar situation. But as said, I am not blind to life and if one day it
has to end it will end.

But one thing I am happy about and that is that I did not marry someone
abusive.

Oh and he will swoop me of my feet and passionately kiss me in public.
:-)))))

Stitch Lady

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Liz Hampton

July 23rd 03, 07:25 AM

The other advantage of a house with property is THE LAND. Even if a fire
were to go through our area (not so much "if" as "when"), we would still own
the land. If we had to, we could put a RV or tent on the property while we
built another house. If an apartment complex burns down, the residents are
homeless. I realize that some people don't want all the "stuff" that goes
with owning a home. There are definite advantages to being able to "call
the Super" when something goes wrong. :-))) If I didn't have such a
mechanically inclined DH, an apartment or Mobile/Manufactured home would be
much more tempting. :-))
Liz from Humbug

> Therefore, it looks very like we will be paying less on the
> 1,900 foot square house than we are paying for the 900 square foot apartment.
> The price of the house, by the way, also includes 1/2 acres of wooded land.
>
> Remember, the owner of the apartment has a mortgage -- and is very unlikely to
> take less in rent than his mortgage costs him/her, unless there are very
> strict
> government rent controls that hold rental prices down or the rental unit is
> part of public housing. Yes, a home owner could lose all their equity, but a
> renter could go through any savings pretty darn fast, too, all things being
> equal.
>
> Katrina L.

--

Brenda Lewis

July 23rd 03, 08:21 AM

I wish that was always true. My last apartment required leases in terms
of one year. Every time you renewed, you had to do it in one year
increments. If you moved out early, you had to continue paying the rent
AND the utilities for the remainder of the lease unless someone else
moved in. I got socked for three months when I moved to marry DH and I
was livid since they wouldn't let me try to work anything else out or
sublet.

In a way I'm laughing at that apartment complex now. They raised
prices, fees, and fines to hideous levels while I lived there. Since I
moved away the university has torn out old apartments, built some lovely
new apartments, built a couple of new dorms, and renovated a not-so-old
dorm. The city also dropped that particular apartment complex from the
bus route and there are no sidewalks in that part of town so walking to
the nearest stop is difficult. The owner (some out-of-town
conglomerate) let the building go to rot. I noticed (from their
website) that they've had to decrease rents by about $70/month since I
left and they appear desperate for tenants. I expect prices will
continue to plummet and they won't be able to be selective about
lessees. The only good thing about the building was my apartment was
large (about 1400 sq. ft.--larger than my current house) and had a
walk-in closet which was at least as large as the kitchen.

emerald wrote:
> As a renter I can hand back the keys and walk away with 30 days notice.

--
Brenda Lewis
WIP: J. Himsworth "I Shall Not Want" xs
J & P Coats "Dancing Snoopy" latchhook

Margaret StJohn

July 23rd 03, 12:18 PM

Hi Stitch Lady,
I was wondering where you are? My husband I are thinking of moving,
and it sounds like you live in a reasonable area. 5 years ago it cost
more to rent here than buy. Our mortgage was 1000 and the rent was 1200. Now
that we are in a recession that has changed. The rent would be 900
today, which still is very little savings over the mortgage. Your
method of saving sounds great, except everything is so expensive here
it wouldn't work, so we'd like to move where it would.
-Margaret

Stitch Lady ) wrote:
: "Alison" > wrote in message
: ...
: > I find this statement (that renting will increase home equity - isn't
: > that what the 0 equity to 100% equity means?) very confusing. Here in
: > the US the usual renting situation gives you NO ownership of the
: > property. And you can't deduct the mortgage interest from your income
: > taxes. You just keep handing the landlord/owner money and getting
: > nothing for it (but rent increases.) There are "rent-to-own" or
: > "lease with option to buy" situations but they are not the usual
: > thing. Also with rentals you have the problem of qualifying for them
: > (my friends with 2 dogs and 2 cats had a terrible time finding a
: > place.) If you're not bound to a community etc. then renting is
: > probably better. Otherwise, if you can afford it, and can get a
: > reasonable mortgage payment, I'd ocnsider owning.

: Hi Alison,

: Sorry to confuse you.

: I rent a property. At the same time I save up a lump of cash each week in
: the bank. That lump of cash in turn earns me a lump of interest. I do this
: until that lump of cash (and interest) equals the cost of a house costing
: about 100K or so. I then go buy a house. In the meantime I have spent less
: than 15K on rent in a 10 year period saving up. So home ownership costs me
: 15K for rent, 100K in savings, and not a cent on interest charged on
: mortgages and any associated costs, etc. I have no ownership of said rented
: property BUT I have got 100% ownership of said 100K house much quicker than
: I would with a mortgage. And before (as said before) I hit the big
: FOUR-ZERO.

: The cost to me over 15 years would 115K in how I am gaining ownership. Oh
: and the bank contributed as well in the equation. At last calculation about
: 5K or so. LOL

: The cost to me over 15 years WITH a mortgage for the same 100K house is 175K
: or more. And the bank would own the house for the next 15 years. The
: interest of a mortgage on a 100K house is about 75K or more.

: In my situation I would own 100% equity in that 100K property overnight. I
: would have no rent, no mortgage, no debts, no chance of losing the house
: because of job loss, nothing, nada, naught.

: In the traditional mortgage situation, there is a chance that I get in a
: situation of negative equity (which for those who don't know means that the
: house is worth less than your mortgage). If I cannot pay because job loss I
: could be evicted and loose all money that was paid to date and be left with
: only my shirt on my back. And then all you can do is move into rented
: property.

: And I am saying this because I have a number of friend to whom this happened
: so I do know how painful losing your home can be because I had to console
: one of those friends while helping her and her family move out. And they
: were only 23K away from 100% home ownership but recession (the 1990s one)
: meant they both lost good jobs and were unable to get a new job anywhere.
: And so they lost their house.

: Anyway, I have looked at all the costs involved and renting for a while for
: the convenience of it being cheap, saving up like hell and earning interest
: rather then paying interest to the bank, and then having the capability of
: outright home ownership without a worry on the horizon, is my choice of home
: ownership.

: And then when you are in that 100K house without debts, a mortgage and
: relatively very little cost of living there, you can just start all over
: again with saving up and then move up to the 200K house in half the time it
: took get in the 100K house. :-))

: Oh and the rent increases are minimal in the grander scheme of things.

: And my friend.Yes, the one who lost her job. She was able to buy back her
: old house late last year without a mortgage or a worry on the horizon. The
: can now afford to live on hubby's part time job rather then both of them
: having to work full time. Maybe that shows how much cheap this way of
: getting home ownership is really. Ten years of both working and then one or
: both being able to go part time. Now if you are a designer and doing a full
: time job, this message must give you food for thought if you are struggling
: between a full time job and running a needlework business. ;-)

: And I am gladly taking my friend's example and doing EXACTLY what she is
: doing.

: Stitch Lady

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\\ o o
|\/ o\ o
> < o Margaret St. John
|/\ / Let it snow!! http://www.oswego.edu/~es_ind04
/// "There is such a thing as a stupid question.
Its the one that is never asked." - MMS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Brat

July 23rd 03, 02:36 PM

Stitch Lady wrote:

> I rent a property. At the same time I save up a lump of cash each week in
> the bank. That lump of cash in turn earns me a lump of interest. I do this
> until that lump of cash (and interest) equals the cost of a house costing
> about 100K or so. I then go buy a house. In the meantime I have spent less
> than 15K on rent in a 10 year period saving up. So home ownership costs me
> 15K for rent, 100K in savings, and not a cent on interest charged on
> mortgages and any associated costs, etc. I have no ownership of said rented
> property BUT I have got 100% ownership of said 100K house much quicker than
> I would with a mortgage. And before (as said before) I hit the big
> FOUR-ZERO.

I'm not disagreeing with your choice, but I'd like to point out that
you've left something out of your calculation. You pay rent, which
makes you nothing, even though you don't pay interest. You have
savings, which make you interest, but not a lot in this market. But
what about the opportunity cost of your savings?

We pay a mortgage on which we paid (until recently) 7.9% interest. We
got a tax break on that interest, so the real cost was less. And we
have some savings, on which we make 2% interest. So the cost of my
morgage interest was somewhere around 9% (what I was paying plus what I
lost). BUT, I invested $17,000 in this house as a down payment and over
4 years the house has increased in value by $110,000, which is a
significant return on my investment, and far more than that money would
make me in the bank. And even if you want to argue that it is
unrealized because I haven't sold, I can tell you that I've done it
before. I invested $7000 in a house in Indiana which I sold for $20,000
more than the purchase price (doubling my money in 7 years) and $9,000
on a house in Ohio which I sold for $11,000 more than the purchase
price. Ok, not as good, but I took $20,000 from the sale because I got
back the principal that I had paid into it.

More importantly, around here, rent costs just as much as a mortgage.
So I can pay $1200 in rent and have little left over to save, or I can
pay $1200 in mortgage and have equity in my house to go with the little
I have left over to save. A lot depends on the market in which one
lives. If you can rent for a lot less than a mortgage, your plan makes
sense. Where I live, it wouldn't work.

Many people like owning their house outright and that is good for them.
My father always told me that in a good market, a mortgage is cheap
money: it's available at low interest and you get a tax break on it
(plus without our mortgage, we wouldn't bother to itemize, but I had
$16,000 in deductions last year). If you know what you are doing, you
can almost always make more on the stock market than you pay in interest
on your mortgage and it makes sense to have the cash available to
invest. In the current situtation, that's not necessarily so, but it's
something to think about.

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*barnacle-encrusted bitch~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Dianne Lewandowski

July 23rd 03, 04:03 PM

Dr. Brat wrote:
> We pay a mortgage on which we paid (until recently) 7.9% interest. We
> got a tax break on that interest, so the real cost was less. And we
> have some savings, on which we make 2% interest. So the cost of my
> morgage interest was somewhere around 9% (what I was paying plus what I
> lost). BUT, I invested $17,000 in this house as a down payment and over
> 4 years the house has increased in value by $110,000, which is a
> significant return on my investment, and far more than that money would
> make me in the bank. And even if you want to argue that it is
> unrealized because I haven't sold, I can tell you that I've done it
> before. I invested $7000 in a house in Indiana which I sold for $20,000
> more than the purchase price (doubling my money in 7 years) and $9,000
> on a house in Ohio which I sold for $11,000 more than the purchase
> price. Ok, not as good, but I took $20,000 from the sale because I got
> back the principal that I had paid into it.

Ok. I'll let you correct me. But in my head (and I KNOW I have fuzzy
math logic), the missing equation here is:
Even though your house increased in value, so did identical houses. So
you didn't win. In fact, to upgrade (which used to be why one
bought/sold through the years), would cost you more.

You can win this game if you move to a part of the country where housing
is less cost than your current location. Or, you can lose lots if you
move where housing is much higher than your present home.

I went round and round some years ago with a guy with a PhD in finance.
Talk about having my brain fry in 10 seconds. <grin> But he agreed
with me. The ONLY way to win financially [home ownership] over the long
haul is to stay put and pay off the mortgage as quickly as possible.
One extra mortgage payment a year can cut as much as 7 years off the
life of a mortgage.

We're sitting in a situation (not uncommon these days) wherein we put
$45K in the house and by the time the realtors get through and the
"negotiations" get through, we'll lose about $15K. Yes, we'll have cash
in our pocket, but we'll lose. The market just hasn't kept up, and we
haven't been able to live here long enough to appreciate any inflation.

Dianne

Judith Truly

July 23rd 03, 05:35 PM

I just got back from a year and a half of renting in Florida and for me
there is no comparison between renting and owning regardfless of cost.
Renting in Florida WAS more expensive than the mortgage on my home in Ohio
but other than that renting was very restrictive in terms of what you want
to do.
Can't plant a flower except in a pot, can't have a bird feeder, can't keep a
BBQ or a bike on your balcony, all kinds of restrictions about what you can
or cannot do inside your apt., noise level outside was horrendous (why can't
they use mowere and sweepers that make less noise?) Partiers outside every
night till 1 or 2 in the morning, 500.00 a yr extra to own a pet-even a bird
or a fish tank- I could go on and on.
Freedom - in your own home is wonderful. Paint the walls purple if you like!
"Brenda Lewis" > wrote in message
...
> I wish that was always true. My last apartment required leases in terms
> of one year. Every time you renewed, you had to do it in one year
> increments. If you moved out early, you had to continue paying the rent
> AND the utilities for the remainder of the lease unless someone else
> moved in. I got socked for three months when I moved to marry DH and I
> was livid since they wouldn't let me try to work anything else out or
> sublet.
>
> In a way I'm laughing at that apartment complex now. They raised
> prices, fees, and fines to hideous levels while I lived there. Since I
> moved away the university has torn out old apartments, built some lovely
> new apartments, built a couple of new dorms, and renovated a not-so-old
> dorm. The city also dropped that particular apartment complex from the
> bus route and there are no sidewalks in that part of town so walking to
> the nearest stop is difficult. The owner (some out-of-town
> conglomerate) let the building go to rot. I noticed (from their
> website) that they've had to decrease rents by about $70/month since I
> left and they appear desperate for tenants. I expect prices will
> continue to plummet and they won't be able to be selective about
> lessees. The only good thing about the building was my apartment was
> large (about 1400 sq. ft.--larger than my current house) and had a
> walk-in closet which was at least as large as the kitchen.
>
> emerald wrote:
> > As a renter I can hand back the keys and walk away with 30 days notice.
>
> --
> Brenda Lewis
> WIP: J. Himsworth "I Shall Not Want" xs
> J & P Coats "Dancing Snoopy" latchhook
>
>

Hollis

July 23rd 03, 07:41 PM

Brenda Lewis > wrote:
> I cringe whenever I hear about someone living in a trailer park. Then
> again, I grew up in tornado country and they seemed to target trailers
> where there is little/no protection from the storm. Midwesterners from
> several states refer to trailer parks as 'tornado magnets' and the
> damage is usually devastating. Since Nova Scotia isn't a hotbed for
> tornadic activity, I suppose it isn't such a concern there.

Just a note here, from a "weather-interested" person (ie SkyWarn
weather spotter for the National Weather Service). Tornados don't
target trailer parks anymore than they target farms. It's just that
trailer parks are traditionally located in flat, treeless areas where
tornados have a more of a tendancy to stay on the ground. Now, the
damage caused by a tornado going through a trailer park is horrific,
mostly because most trailers are not built to withstand the wind force
(where more foundation-based homes are).

My husband and I had the misfortune to help clean up a tornado ravaged
area here in Minnesota in 1998. Our job was to clean up the field next
to the "town trailer park". When assigned, we were told we'd be
working in 3 hour shifts. I thought that was much to short a time to
do anything productive. In a sense I was right. We didn't get much
cleaned up, but our morale was definately at an all time low after 3
hours. Picking insulation out of bushes without an end in sight is
very very depressing.

---
Holly K.
WIPS: Noah's Ark Sampler - Teresa Wentzler / Bald Eagle - Sherrie
Stepp-Aweau / Primitive Santa - ??

www.tortpro.net

Brenda Lewis

July 23rd 03, 08:47 PM

Very true. Not to mention a tornado passing through a trailer park has
a high probability of being observed whereas a tornado passing through
miles of fields may not be visually spotted. It irks me to hear about
how residents of a trailer park are supposed to go to the park's
community/rec center when a storm warning is issued. So many severe
storms pass through at night or on weekends and residents show up only
to find the doors locked. Not to mention waiting until the warning is
announced could easily be too late!

On this note, hope anyone who has been in the areas hit this week
(tornadoes in/near Cedar Rapids and in Youngstown, probably more I
haven't heard about) are ok. The flooding here has been terrible and it
is storming again today. One part of the county got three inches in
about ninety minutes today on top of the seven inches received over the
last two days. The rain has slowed to about one inch per hour now.
Several places in NE Ohio have been evacuated and roads are closed all
over the place and some bridges are out. All of the yards (except our
own as we are elevated) that we can see from our deck have water
standing in them. Our basement is dry so far but I know other parts of
town which are closer to the Cuyahoga are having a really bad time. The
school a couple of blocks away from our house was hit by lightning
yesterday and lost their sound and timekeeping systems.

Hollis wrote:
> Just a note here, from a "weather-interested" person (ie SkyWarn
> weather spotter for the National Weather Service). Tornados don't
> target trailer parks anymore than they target farms. It's just that
> trailer parks are traditionally located in flat, treeless areas where
> tornados have a more of a tendancy to stay on the ground. Now, the
> damage caused by a tornado going through a trailer park is horrific,
> mostly because most trailers are not built to withstand the wind force
> (where more foundation-based homes are).

--
Brenda Lewis
WIP: J. Himsworth "I Shall Not Want" xs
J & P Coats "Dancing Snoopy" latchhook

Gillian Murray

July 23rd 03, 09:20 PM

Wow, Hollis,

Another Skywarn Spotter on the group. Are you a Ham operator as well?? We
are having a working session this Saturday for shelter coverage. I have only
had to call bad weather in once, but have also reported rainfall when a net
has been set up. I know have my own weather station, wireless, and have the
software to show the readings on my computer. It was interesting to note the
largest gust 24 mpph,. and rainfall at a rate of 8 inches per hour, when ne
of our quick and dirty afternoon storms come through. It didn't last more
than 10 mins, but we landed up with 1/2 inch of rain.

Gillian
KC5TEN,,SW# POL 131A
"Hollis" > wrote in message
om...
> Brenda Lewis > wrote:
> > I cringe whenever I hear about someone living in a trailer park. Then
> > again, I grew up in tornado country and they seemed to target trailers
> > where there is little/no protection from the storm. Midwesterners from
> > several states refer to trailer parks as 'tornado magnets' and the
> > damage is usually devastating. Since Nova Scotia isn't a hotbed for
> > tornadic activity, I suppose it isn't such a concern there.
>
> Just a note here, from a "weather-interested" person (ie SkyWarn
> weather spotter for the National Weather Service). Tornados don't
> target trailer parks anymore than they target farms. It's just that
> trailer parks are traditionally located in flat, treeless areas where
> tornados have a more of a tendancy to stay on the ground. Now, the
> damage caused by a tornado going through a trailer park is horrific,
> mostly because most trailers are not built to withstand the wind force
> (where more foundation-based homes are).
>
> My husband and I had the misfortune to help clean up a tornado ravaged
> area here in Minnesota in 1998. Our job was to clean up the field next
> to the "town trailer park". When assigned, we were told we'd be
> working in 3 hour shifts. I thought that was much to short a time to
> do anything productive. In a sense I was right. We didn't get much
> cleaned up, but our morale was definately at an all time low after 3
> hours. Picking insulation out of bushes without an end in sight is
> very very depressing.
>
> ---
> Holly K.
> WIPS: Noah's Ark Sampler - Teresa Wentzler / Bald Eagle - Sherrie
> Stepp-Aweau / Primitive Santa - ??
>
> www.tortpro.net

JAKL

July 23rd 03, 09:26 PM

>renting was very restrictive in terms of what you want
>to do.

which is something that varies depending on where you live.

I don't know if my current home is considered a single-level townhouse or an
apartment, there are 4 units in my buliding, each with their own separate
entrances front and back, small yards (not separately fenced) plus a community
laundry and storage unit in the back in what would have been the second bedroom
of the sole 1-bed unit in the building.

I can plant along the edge of the building in back if I put up a low fenced
border, but I choose not to. I can have outdoor furniture, yard toys for the
kids, BBQ grill, bicycles, etc. on my patio, but the landlord would prefer that
I not put things permanently on the grass (which makes sense, he doesn't want
us to kill the grass and he wants to be able to easily mow). There is a fence
along the back side of the property, I do have a bird feeder and outdoor
thermometer mounted on the fence. I've never talked to him about painting,
although my sister wants to redo my living room for sure. I can't have a dog
at all, but cats and caged animals are all acceptable with no extra fees.

Just my current situation!

Jenn L.
View My Webshots: http://community.webshots.com/user/jaliace
Current projects:
Chicago Skyline (The Needlecraftsman)
Lady of the Flag (Mirabilia)

Dianne Lewandowski

July 23rd 03, 09:27 PM

Crossing my fingers for all of you. What you relate can be so
devastating to so many people. Many never recover.
Dianne

Brenda Lewis wrote:
> Very true. Not to mention a tornado passing through a trailer park has
> a high probability of being observed whereas a tornado passing through
> miles of fields may not be visually spotted. It irks me to hear about
> how residents of a trailer park are supposed to go to the park's
> community/rec center when a storm warning is issued. So many severe
> storms pass through at night or on weekends and residents show up only
> to find the doors locked. Not to mention waiting until the warning is
> announced could easily be too late!
>
> On this note, hope anyone who has been in the areas hit this week
> (tornadoes in/near Cedar Rapids and in Youngstown, probably more I
> haven't heard about) are ok. The flooding here has been terrible and it
> is storming again today. One part of the county got three inches in
> about ninety minutes today on top of the seven inches received over the
> last two days. The rain has slowed to about one inch per hour now.
> Several places in NE Ohio have been evacuated and roads are closed all
> over the place and some bridges are out. All of the yards (except our
> own as we are elevated) that we can see from our deck have water
> standing in them. Our basement is dry so far but I know other parts of
> town which are closer to the Cuyahoga are having a really bad time. The
> school a couple of blocks away from our house was hit by lightning
> yesterday and lost their sound and timekeeping systems.
>
> Hollis wrote:
>
>> Just a note here, from a "weather-interested" person (ie SkyWarn
>> weather spotter for the National Weather Service). Tornados don't
>> target trailer parks anymore than they target farms. It's just that
>> trailer parks are traditionally located in flat, treeless areas where
>> tornados have a more of a tendancy to stay on the ground. Now, the
>> damage caused by a tornado going through a trailer park is horrific,
>> mostly because most trailers are not built to withstand the wind force
>> (where more foundation-based homes are).
>
>

Dr. Brat

July 23rd 03, 10:27 PM

Dianne Lewandowski wrote:
> Dr. Brat wrote:
>
>> We pay a mortgage on which we paid (until recently) 7.9% interest. We
>> got a tax break on that interest, so the real cost was less. And we
>> have some savings, on which we make 2% interest. So the cost of my
>> morgage interest was somewhere around 9% (what I was paying plus what
>> I lost). BUT, I invested $17,000 in this house as a down payment and
>> over 4 years the house has increased in value by $110,000, which is a
>> significant return on my investment, and far more than that money
>> would make me in the bank. And even if you want to argue that it is
>> unrealized because I haven't sold, I can tell you that I've done it
>> before. I invested $7000 in a house in Indiana which I sold for
>> $20,000 more than the purchase price (doubling my money in 7 years)
>> and $9,000 on a house in Ohio which I sold for $11,000 more than the
>> purchase price. Ok, not as good, but I took $20,000 from the sale
>> because I got back the principal that I had paid into it.
>
> Ok. I'll let you correct me. But in my head (and I KNOW I have fuzzy
> math logic), the missing equation here is:

I wasn't meaning to correct you, just to add a different perspective.

> Even though your house increased in value, so did identical houses. So
> you didn't win. In fact, to upgrade (which used to be why one
> bought/sold through the years), would cost you more.

Yes, but as long as I'm willing to leverage what I have, I can afford to
upgrade. And why shouldn't it cost me more to upgrade? It makes no
sense to me that it wouldn't.

> You can win this game if you move to a part of the country where housing
> is less cost than your current location. Or, you can lose lots if you
> move where housing is much higher than your present home.

I did that when I moved from Ohio to Massachusetts. We sold for $81,000
and bought for $175,000. It was pretty shocking. But the fact is, it
has cost me more per month, but it hasn't cost me more on the original
investment. In other words, my father lent me $7000 for my first house.
When I sold it, I paid him back and had enough to get into the second
house. When I sold the second house, I had enough for the down payment
on the third house. You could argue that it's costing me more per
month, but my mortgage payment has consistently been less than local
rent and I'm locked out of the rental market anyway (2 dogs and a cat'll
do that).

> I went round and round some years ago with a guy with a PhD in finance.
> Talk about having my brain fry in 10 seconds. <grin> But he agreed
> with me. The ONLY way to win financially [home ownership] over the long
> haul is to stay put and pay off the mortgage as quickly as possible. One
> extra mortgage payment a year can cut as much as 7 years off the life of
> a mortgage.

No, it's not the only way. You can use your mortgage to finance other
investments and win that way. Paying off the mortgage is *not* the only
smart option. In our case, $9,000 (5% down with a blended mortgage to
avoid PMI) got us into a two family that needed work. We dragged our
feet more than was smart on the work, but now that the apartment is
ready, we will make almost as much in rent every month as our mortgage
costs us. AND we'll have enough equity because of the increase in value
that we could take some out and use it as the down payment on another
rental property if we were so inclined (we're not). I call that winning.

> We're sitting in a situation (not uncommon these days) wherein we put
> $45K in the house and by the time the realtors get through and the
> "negotiations" get through, we'll lose about $15K. Yes, we'll have cash
> in our pocket, but we'll lose. The market just hasn't kept up, and we
> haven't been able to live here long enough to appreciate any inflation.

But the fact remains that if you had the option of staying longer, you
might see a return on your $45K. It's unfortunate that the timing has
worked out the way it has, but that doesn't mean it's always a losing
situtation. Real estate is like any other investment. There are losers
and winners and the winnings are all the bigger where the risk is
greater. I'm grateful to have so far come out ahead, but I realize that
I could lose. What I'm disagreeing with is the idea that one can *only*
lose.

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*barnacle-encrusted bitch~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Stitch Lady

July 24th 03, 02:37 AM

"Margaret StJohn" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Stitch Lady,
> I was wondering where you are? My husband I are thinking of moving,
> and it sounds like you live in a reasonable area. 5 years ago it cost
> more to rent here than buy. Our mortgage was 1000 and the rent was 1200.
Now
> that we are in a recession that has changed. The rent would be 900
> today, which still is very little savings over the mortgage. Your
> method of saving sounds great, except everything is so expensive here
> it wouldn't work, so we'd like to move where it would.

I live in the cheapest rented accommodation possible which is public
housing. Well, now I am going to get it in the neck from people who think
living in them ain't no good, but I remind them that I have nothing but
praise for trailer parks so they don't need to start about public housing.

I can email you in confidence with more details if that is okay. I don't
want to discuss financial information in such a detail online. Hence why I
never included currency in my post and broadly generalised.

Stitch Lady

---
This email has been certified to be free from viruses.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 18/07/2003

Margaret StJohn

July 24th 03, 12:10 PM

Feel free to email me.
-Margaret

Stitch Lady ) wrote:
: "Margaret StJohn" > wrote in message
: ...
: > Hi Stitch Lady,
: > I was wondering where you are? My husband I are thinking of moving,
: > and it sounds like you live in a reasonable area. 5 years ago it cost
: > more to rent here than buy. Our mortgage was 1000 and the rent was 1200.
: Now
: > that we are in a recession that has changed. The rent would be 900
: > today, which still is very little savings over the mortgage. Your
: > method of saving sounds great, except everything is so expensive here
: > it wouldn't work, so we'd like to move where it would.

: I live in the cheapest rented accommodation possible which is public
: housing. Well, now I am going to get it in the neck from people who think
: living in them ain't no good, but I remind them that I have nothing but
: praise for trailer parks so they don't need to start about public housing.

: I can email you in confidence with more details if that is okay. I don't
: want to discuss financial information in such a detail online. Hence why I
: never included currency in my post and broadly generalised.

: Stitch Lady

: ---
: This email has been certified to be free from viruses.
: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
: Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 18/07/2003

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\\ o o
|\/ o\ o
> < o Margaret St. John
|/\ / Let it snow!! http://www.oswego.edu/~es_ind04
/// "There is such a thing as a stupid question.
Its the one that is never asked." - MMS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Brat

July 24th 03, 04:00 PM

Stitch Lady wrote:
[saving while renting vs paying a mortgage]
> And all costs of saving are calculated and listed with comparative expenses
> if we were doing things in at 3-4 other ways. Financial planning services
> are a great help as well...
>
> Hope this answers your question.

Sure, but I still maintain that success is predicated on your being able
to rent for significantly less than you would pay on a mortgage every
month. In the area in which I live, that just isn't possible.

I wish you the best of success with your plans.

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*barnacle-encrusted bitch~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.

July 24th 03, 09:20 PM

My new wife was not to happy finding out we live only 6 miles from
Tornado Alley!
We had a few come through in their usual location, didn't worry none
of us below the alley. Except when my wife realized, she drives right
past there on the way to work and works RIGHT THERE.

Of course, were NOT ALLOWED to call that area up north Tornado Alley!
Might hurt Realty sales in that area. But those of us who live here,
know where 90% of the Tornado's are going to travel. Right down
Tornado Alley!

Our family owned 12 acres under glass for generations, in 71 years we
were only hit by hail twice and both times it only damaged one side of
the greenhouses.

Yet the insurance companies have increased homeowner insurance by 34%
across the board in our state, claiming due to excessive hailstorm
damage, which some did occur on the Kansas/Missouri border, clear on
the other side of the state. Kansas insurance did not go up!

Sounds like another insurance scam to gouge the people of Missouri of
even yet more money!

Who cares? I'm Tennessee bound anyway!

TTUL
Gary

Hollis

July 25th 03, 01:13 AM

"Gillian Murray" > wrote:
> Wow, Hollis,
>
> Another Skywarn Spotter on the group. Are you a Ham operator as well?? We
> are having a working session this Saturday for shelter coverage. I have only
> had to call bad weather in once, but have also reported rainfall when a net
> has been set up. I know have my own weather station, wireless, and have the
> software to show the readings on my computer. It was interesting to note the
> largest gust 24 mpph,. and rainfall at a rate of 8 inches per hour, when ne
> of our quick and dirty afternoon storms come through. It didn't last more
> than 10 mins, but we landed up with 1/2 inch of rain.
>
> Gillian

Nope. Just a spotter. My hubby got me into it after he became a ham
(KC0FXY), but I utterly refuse to get involved with the radio side.
The minute I do he's going to be filling my work area and vehicle with
radios and antennas and other sundry equipment!

My real reason for becoming a spotter was that I was terrified of
strong storms (having been through a couple tornados when I was a
kid). I figured that if I took the class I'd know when the weather was
bad and when it was REALLY BAD! Since then (4 years ago) we've made a
couple storm chasing runs, gotten some neat pictures,
(http://www.geocities.com/maxwell_chester/6-11clouds2sm.jpg) but not
made any significant calls. The hubby accuses me of being more into
the weather now than most paid weather people. (I can usually predict
if a day is going to turn stormy or not from a look at the sky, radar
and K-index at 5:30 AM)

The hubby, bless his soul, keeps trying to get me to become a ham. I
let him do it, it gives him another hobby :)

---
Holly K.
WIPS: Noah's Ark Sampler - Teresa Wentzler / Bald Eagle - Sherrie
Stepp-Aweau / Primitive Santa - ??

www.tortpro.net

Gillian Murray

July 25th 03, 03:17 AM

I stitched a great Ham chart for DH and myself. My old copy is on the
cross-stitch auction. I got it from Nyssa at Rivers Edge. It is named
Calling CQ. You might like to look at it on her site. I became a Ham because
we lived fulltime in our RV, and it was a great way for communication when I
was in a strange town, and he was back in the Motorhome. Now I have been
Treasurer of our local club for three years; the male treasurers for two
years before me had never balanced the checkbook against the bank account.
They were four hundred dollars short!!!! Needless to say, I insisted on some
sort of an audit before I took over the books. The old timers have really
been most unhappy on my insisting on receipts......but we now have a
balanced budget and 2400 dollars for our Repeater Development Fund. Not too
shabby!!

I quit at this election; both as Treasurer and membership Chairman!

Give your husband a 73 from me.

Gillian KC5TEN, and DH is KC5QWG. It ticks the Floridians off that we have a
Texas call.

"Hollis" > wrote in message
om...
> "Gillian Murray" > wrote:
> > Wow, Hollis,
> >
> > Another Skywarn Spotter on the group. Are you a Ham operator as well??
We
> > are having a working session this Saturday for shelter coverage. I have
only
> > had to call bad weather in once, but have also reported rainfall when a
net
> > has been set up. I know have my own weather station, wireless, and have
the
> > software to show the readings on my computer. It was interesting to note
the
> > largest gust 24 mpph,. and rainfall at a rate of 8 inches per hour, when
ne
> > of our quick and dirty afternoon storms come through. It didn't last
more
> > than 10 mins, but we landed up with 1/2 inch of rain.
> >
> > Gillian
>
> Nope. Just a spotter. My hubby got me into it after he became a ham
> (KC0FXY), but I utterly refuse to get involved with the radio side.
> The minute I do he's going to be filling my work area and vehicle with
> radios and antennas and other sundry equipment!
>
> My real reason for becoming a spotter was that I was terrified of
> strong storms (having been through a couple tornados when I was a
> kid). I figured that if I took the class I'd know when the weather was
> bad and when it was REALLY BAD! Since then (4 years ago) we've made a
> couple storm chasing runs, gotten some neat pictures,
> (http://www.geocities.com/maxwell_chester/6-11clouds2sm.jpg) but not
> made any significant calls. The hubby accuses me of being more into
> the weather now than most paid weather people. (I can usually predict
> if a day is going to turn stormy or not from a look at the sky, radar
> and K-index at 5:30 AM)
>
> The hubby, bless his soul, keeps trying to get me to become a ham. I
> let him do it, it gives him another hobby :)
>
> ---
> Holly K.
> WIPS: Noah's Ark Sampler - Teresa Wentzler / Bald Eagle - Sherrie
> Stepp-Aweau / Primitive Santa - ??
>
> www.tortpro.net